1000 posts up on this thread - well done to all contributors and especially the main players.
Daggers

additional link

Gwyn. More info has been added since. See link above.

Regards,
Rab

I thought this short article from the Norwich Evening News might be of interest.

I hope link works Click Here

Thank you, Rab, for the links. Thank you, Daggers, for the good wishes. Thank you, Malcolm, for the link. (On behalf of Graeme too.)

People's continued interest helps to make it worthwhile. We have a vast amount of material still to upload and I hope for time to do some more in the near future. I have had a lot going on.

Gwyn

Hi,
William Linton Andrews wrote in his book "Haunting Years" that when he enlisted with the 1/4th Black Watch they drilled and were billeted for a while in a local drill hall. At the time I supposed that this was in central Dundee. In his history of "The Black Watch in the Great War" Major General A.G Wauchope again mentions that the 1/4th were trained and billeted in the Bell street Drill Hall. Unfortunately it is no longer there but it seems to have been located between the current Sheriff Court House and a New library Facility built for the University of Abertay. The original structure was designed in 1866 by the Architect Thomas Saunders Robertson in partnership with other Architects. The original structure was burned down and a replacement built see here for design history
http://www.scottisharchitects.org.uk/archi...l.php?id=100388
Pictures of the building and its replacement can be seen here
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/photodb/wc1205.htm
and here
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/photodb/wc1206.htm although at the moment I can't say which of the buildings was the original.
For pictures of the approximate location today see
http://www.mccrow.org.uk/taysidetoday/Dund...CityCentre2.htm

Hopefully this is of interest
Ian

Excellent - thank you, Ian.

The Dictionary of Scottish Architects is a fabulous resource, which I know Graeme trawled a while ago. I know that Wales has nothing similar and to the best of my knowledge, nor has England.

The archives photos are very interesting; I suppose Dundee Central Library would know which was the original and I could email them. It's also good to have a dated reference (the two books).

Thanks too for saving someone a disappointing trip. In the database, a negative is a positive, if you see what I mean.

We have added to our collection some lovely and idiosyncratic photos of Scottish drill halls and I'm thinking of putting on a Scottish Selection II while we finish the English counties.

Lovely stuff; thanks.

Gwyn

Gwyn,
it's my pleasure. I've had so much help from various people on the forum it is always good when I can reciprocate slightly. After our discussion about R Burns last week I had a look at the Drill Hall link that you had in your signature and that reminded me of the Linton Andrews reference.
The drill hall was still functioning in the 30's. A fur exhibition was held there in Dec 1933. The library should be able to help with the identification of the two drill halls. The picture archive of Dundee is a great resource but i wish that they had more detailed notes attached.

regards

Ian

Hi there gang,

I just happened to be outside the old Carlton Barracks, Carlton Hill Leeds, and was very disappointed to see the (ancient) vandalism done to the old main gate there.

The main arched doorway all bricked up apart from a small blue door set in it, and the main name board over the what would have been the door as been painted out in black, but if you get the angle right you can make out the the words,Carlton Barracks, Leeds Rifles and in the centre the Battalion coat of arms, I will try to pop along again and see if I can photo it.

I know that you have some photo's of the general aspect.

Cheers Roger.

Thank you, Roger. Disappointing, as you say.

A photo would be nice, especially if you can get the angle right. I suspect that has a lot to do with light as well as angle.

Gwyn

Hi Gwyn, I will try my best for you with my digi camera.

Just trying this out, it should show the name board for the Leeds Rifles at Carlton Barracks Leeds, which I wrote about as ancient vandalism.

Cheers Roger.

Have considered making enquiries with the TA & VR Associations?
The Hampshire TAVRA is in Carlton Place, Southampton. This organisation in 1921 put together a book entitled The History of the Hampshire Territorial Force and War Records of Units 1914-1919, which includes each units history, some are more detailed than others but in respect of your question it lists all the buildings erected since 1908.
Roger

Well done Roger, it appears as if angle and light were quite favourable for you.


George

Hi there George,

Thanks for that and yes it was just right, and taken on a asmall Sangsun Digi Camera, I took 3 of the nameboard and 3 of the building line and that was during my dinner break at work.

Cheers Roger.

Hi Roger

I used the volume on Hampshire that you refer to when I tried to chase up some Portsmouth and Gosport locations for the website. Unfortunately The volume that you mention often assumes knowledge, and there are still several locations for which there are neither photographs nor plans. In some cases, (Cosham, Southsea, and Governor's Green in Portsmouth the locations are identifiable, but we have as yet no surviving images.

Keith

Hello, Roger (Popeye): Thank you for those fabulous, poignant images. As you know, we've communicated about them by email.

Hello, Roger (Pounds): Thanks for the suggestion. Apart from the great help Keith gave us, I don't know whether the volume you mention has been used. I don't know whether Graeme referred to it, though I can't recall it in the database.

I believe that the English arm of the TA has been unhelpful and uninterested, and not replied to Graeme's letters, even though last year was their centenary and we are recording buildings from its original years. I've had the same negative experience, with emails and direct letters ignored, which has led me to suspect that the part-time voluntary soldiers of 1908-1914 are of virtually no interest to their current archivists.

Gwyn

,
Hi there gang just trying out again to see if I have got it right about resizing for forums.

These pici's are of Carlton Barracks Leeds home of the Leeds Rifles, and 2 of them show the arched doorway with the name board I submitted about a fortnight ago.

Cheers Roger.

Here's another

And the final one, the 2 showing the arched doorway are facing down Carlton Hill towards Carlton Gate. in Leeds.

Would you like any photos and details of the drill halls in Halesworth, Suffolk.

There are actually two sites, the old drill hall and the Rifle Hall.

Pm with an email address I can send them to me or just let me know here and I will pop out down the road (50m) and take them.

John

Thank you very much, John. I've sent you a message.

Gwyn

Gwyn,

Have you seen this site - http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/...1&sort=date

Its from the House of Commons, there is quite a bit onthere about drill halls, that might fill in some of your gaps. I came accross it whilst looking for the mystery hall with train

Grant

Gwyn

I did check the Hampshire TA volume - I might still have a scan of the relevant pages - but they provided no detailed addresses. One day I will get round to making an appointment with the Royal Hampshire Museum who might have some photographs or information, but I gather that it might be a long job, so it will probably have to wait until I retire 9probably 3 or more years to go), as I don't get all that much leave in my current employment. I haven't forgotten the challenge and will find a way eventually.

Keith

Thanks, Grant. I do dip into Hansard to look for drill halls under disposal by the MoD, so next time I'll make a point of doing an historic search.

Keith, you've already given us excellent photos and help with Hampshire, but if you're happy to look forward to another challenge eventually, then thanks! Belated happy birthday, by the way. (I missed the Skindles thread at the time.)

Gwyn

Gwyn,

Came across a reference to a drill hall in Sheffield.
It was called the "Edmund road drill hall" and was off Shoreham Street, close to Bramhall FC ground

Not sure if yu have it, or if it's still standing - it was written about in past tense

Grant

I would get your cameras out, after yesterdays announcemnet that 10,000 TA will go reducing the strength by a third. Many drill halls will be sold off for a fast buck and development.

Wandering down Furzeham Road, Chard over Easter I came across an ACF building which I assumed was a drill hall. It is red brick and frontage not unlike a house but looking down the side seems to be purpose built with height and depth.

This is probably not your George Black, but I do have information about a George Boyd Black who was Scottish and served with the RE. He was located at Abancourt in France and is buried at Blargies. Below is a summary of my information. If "your" George has any connection with this man I would be interested to know.

Regards,

Clint Mann

G.B.BLACK
George Boyd Black was born in Glasgow, Scotland in 1867, the son of carpenter and joiner James Black (born Glasgow abt 1839) and Erskine (born Glasgow abt 1842). In 1871 he was living in Crewe Street in the ward of Boughton in Chester, alongside a two year old sister Marion. In 1881 he was living at 48 Union Street in Chorlton-upon-Medlock in Cheshire, working as an errand boy. His mother Erskine was at this time a 39 year old widow, working as a charwoman. George was living with four younger siblings: Maria Stewart (born Scotland 1870), James (born Crew, Cheshire 1872), Erskine (born Manchester 1874) and William Boyd (born Manchester 1876). The four younger children are all named as scholar. Three others are recorded as lodging with the Black family.

He married about Sept 1895 in Chorlton Lancashire (Chorlton 8c 1027) to Ella Schofield.

By 1911, George himself was a boarder, living at 15 Sedgewick Road in Leyton, Essex. At the age of 42 he was working as an accountant to a public company. His lodgings were with 69 year old William Phillipson, a general labourer for a Railway Box Officer. William had a 51 year old wife Eliza. They had been married for 16 years but had no children.

In 1918 George’s regiment was the Corps of Royal Engineers and was serving with the 24th Base Park Company. His rank was S/Sgt. His regimental number was 36791. He was one of twelve men acknowledged in Percival Larke’s letter. sent to Ethel Day in sympathy after the death of Herbert Stanley Day on 27th May 1918.

George Boyd Black died on the 19th October, 1918 and was buried in Grave III, C, 11 in Blargies Communal Cemetery, France.

His army service and pension records would appear not to have survived. His details are indicated on a medal record card, showing that he was awarded the Victory and British medals. His sister applied for these on behalf of his widow on 19th December 1923. The address given was Mrs Black, 95 Norfolk Road, Cliftonville, Margate.

Hi Julianem,

If you are talking about the Drill Hall at St Pauls Street in the centre of Huddersfield the that was the home Drill Hall of the 5th Battalion the West Riding Regiment, Duke of Wellingtons, maybe some of the other Battalions used it as a war time measure.

I'm more than sure that an expert on the Duke of Wellingtons will be along before long to put me right and give you the correct answer.

There are a number of memorial panels within the Drill Hall of the 5th Battalion's men who fell in that war, there is also a smaller one of the 7th from a disued public building and as been lodged there for safe keeping, and I believe quite recently theyhave also taken a small one of the 2nd Battalion once again from a redundant building although I have never seen it, the others I have.

Cheers Roger.

Thank you for the last few contributions. Graeme has visited the Sheffield Drill Halls and his photos are on the website. Is this the Chard building? I think the 2008 Hudderfield question has been amply answered: thanks.

We have just uploaded Sussex. This may be of particular interest to people who generously helped by offering photos.

We were given some very useful information by 'kebabking', but I can't specifically acknowledge it. He posted me some stuff and didn't give any name or contact details, so I don't know who to credit. I've tried sending him a message via the forum, but he hasn't picked it up. If anyone is in contact with him, please could you ask him either to retrieve the message or to email Graeme at the contact address on drillhalls.org, just to let us know what to do by way of credits? ('Anonymous' is fine, but I don't want to seem unappreciative.)

Gwyn

Just a quick update on Bedale Drill Hall Gwyn. Until recently it was being used as a bathroom showroom. It looks as if this business hasn't been a success and the building is empty once again. No sign of a For Sale/To Let board yet and haven't seen anything in the paper. I'll post here if there are any developements.

Roger.

Thanks, Roger. That's useful. I had been wondering, when I reviewed the thread recently. I'll add it to my list of updates!

Gwyn

Thank you very much for the information and the date.

Gwyn

I believe you will find that this is the A/M40 Motorway known as the Westway.

Myrtle

Thank you for the clarification, Myrtle - but where has the original post gone? Now I don't know which drill hall that information relates to, and I don't know London, so it's lost.

Gwyn

Gwyn
I don't know where the original post has gone but I believe that you will find the details on this thread Post 38

That link doesn't appear to work so here is the information courtesy of Wienand

10th (County) - Paddington Rifles: 208-209 Harrow Road, Paddington W2 (LOST – now Harrow Road Health Centre)
TBY1910 says 207-209 Harrow Road


Myrtle

Thank you, Myrtle. I'm sorry I missed your post at the time.

Good Evening All.
Any idea where the Special Reservists did their drilling prior to joining the 1st Bn Royal Fusiliers (City of London)Regt November /December 1914, my fella lived in Fulham London at that time. Hope you can help.
Best Regards Andy

Some of the London battalions used the White City Exhibition grounds; extensive open spaces as the pavilions and exhibits had mostly been cleared and these were only a few miles from Fulham and Chelsea for instance.

Gwyn
This may or may not be useful to you, but when looking for something else in the 1881 census LDS transcription discs, I came across this, as evidence of a drill hall used by Volunteers:
"Dwelling: Cooper Street Drill Hall
Census Place: Elton, Lancashire, England
Source: FHL Film 1341922 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 3859 Folio 16 Page 26
Evan PEREGRINE M 41 M Wales
Rel: Head
Occ: Sergeant Major 8th LRU (Vol)" [plus large family born locally.]

ELTON is within Bury, now Greater Manchester but properly in Lancs. Cooper Street is or was off Bolton Road, but too small to be shown on my 1930s road atlas, and may adjoin the Lancs F. Depot, also in Bolton Road.
D

Thank you for that. I can't find it in the database, so I'll make sure that it's added.

I looked on the old maps and the street is there, though not named, off Bolton Street and there isn't a drill hall labelled. That doesn't mean much, though, as they are often not marked on the scale of maps which are online.

I wonder what, if any, its relationship was to the one which was extended in 1907 and still exists.


Edit:

Having looked again, I'm confused. Google Maps gave me Cooper Street off Bolton Street. Have I got the right place? Or are Bolton Road and Bolton Street in different areas?

Do you mean the area of the former militia barracks?

Gwyn

Hi there Gwyn and Daggers,

Excuse a Yorkie butting in here, from what I can make out on the 1881 census and following the enumerator around(with the aid of a 16 year old A-Z), it looks like its in the area of the roundabout at Peel way/Bolton Street, Bolton Road.

I have found a ref to the formation that was in there at the time, pre Lancashire Fusiliers time, they where the 8th Lancashire(Bury)Rifle Volunteer Corps formed 1859, this can be found on Wiki whatever its called and we know how wide of the mark they can be sometimes.

The Lancashire Fusiliers Regimental Museum might be able to help more.

Thats my 2 pennarth.

Cheers Roger.

Hi there Gwyn and Daggers,

Excuse a Yorkie butting in here, from what I can make out on the 1881 census and following the enumerator around(with the aid of a 16 year old A-Z), it looks like its in the area of the roundabout at Peel way/Bolton Street, Bolton Road.

Peel Way runs on into Bolton Street which in turn runs on into Bolton Road, so I would say yes to it being the site of the militia.

I have found a ref to the formation that was in there at the time, pre Lancashire Fusiliers time, they where the 8th Lancashire(Bury)Rifle Volunteer Corps formed 1859, this can be found on Wiki whatever its called and we know how wide of the mark they can be sometimes.

The Lancashire Fusiliers Regimental Museum might be able to help more.

Thats my 2 pennarth.

Cheers Roger.

Hi again,

Been having a look at the old maps again and on the 1854 there is shown Bury Barracks at what we now know as the Wellington Barracks, it does not show the Militia Barracks though.

Looking at an uptodate A-Z the Militia Barracks looks like its called Elton Wellington House.

The Barracks are marked on Bolton Road. In 1854 they're called Bury Barracks. By 1894 there are Wellington Barracks (20th Regt** something I can't read) , with Wellington Grounds adjacent, and Militia Barracks (disused), adjoining Lord Street. Of the two barracks, Wellington is slightly further down the road away from Bury.

In 1911, these premises are marked Wellington Barracks (20th Regt** something I can't read) and Militia Barracks (disused).

By 1931, Wellington Barracks is still labelled as such and 20th Regt something illegible. It's now edged by Orpington Street, a recreation ground and small reservoir, and Haig Street. Wellington Grounds has become Wellington Gardens. Militia Barracks has gone. Elton Square and Proctor Street seem to be roughly in that location.

This is the geographical area I meant.

I don't know Bury and can only form a superficial impression from the online old OS maps at 1:10560 scale. I would welcome input from someone better informed than I am at the moment.

We have a lot of material on the planning and opening of the extended drill hall in 1907, because it was reported in minute detail in the local and national press, but I can't see that we have anything on Cooper Street Drill Hall, Elton. I don't know whether Graeme has anything. I will make a point of going to Bury sometime and trying to follow this up.

Gwyn

Hi Gwyn,

The 20th something is the 20th Regiment of foot, which in 1881 became known as "The Lancashire Fusiliers" I know this as I have been helping somebody research there rellies in that Regiment, hehe.

Cheers Roger.

Hi Roger

I'm not sure. This is a screengrab of the 1894 map and the word I can't read.

Click to view attachment

It's the same word in 1911.

Gwyn

Gwyn

Its 20th Regimental District.

See: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...ls=True&j=1

Dave

Hi there Dave,

Thanks very much for that head up, good reading, as I understand it the 20/20 mean as you say 20th Regimental district and the 20th of Foot.

Cheers Roger.

Thank you for that, Dave and for your input, Roger. I'm happy that someone else understands the regular army structure so I can focus on what I do know about!

My original question is whether this geographical area of the barracks is where Cooper Street, Elton, was. The only Cooper Street shown on modern maps is near Market Place which isn't in Elton as far as I can tell.

Gwyn