Graeme,

further to previous posts about the St Helens Volunteer Hall, it struck me that the nearby contemporary pubs are of interest, as they probably provided refuge and refreshment to the boys back in the day.

Closest was The Volunteer, just along Mill St, on the corner where it meets Duke St. My Dad had his first ever pint in there, but it was knocked down a long time ago.

Next, on Duke St - perhaps 150 yards from the Hall - is The Rifle Hotel, formerly known as The Rifle Corps:



Also on Duke St - again, within a couple of hundred yards - is The Duke of Cambridge, named for the C-in-C of the Army at the time the Volunteers were formed:



So we have three contemporary pubs that stood / stand very close to the Drill Hall, all with names related to the Volunteers. The streets speak to us, they really do.

Best regards,

Ste

Now then, Ste, should we be introducing pubs into this thread?
OF COURSE!!!

Curiously, in a village (Wall, Staffs) near where I grew up, there was a pub called the Trooper.

And whilst researching my project, came across the fact that the HQ of the Staffordshire Yeomanry was, at one time, in Wall.

So pubs with a military name are very often related to local military locations. If nothing else, it provides

a) a pointer to the locale of a long demolished drill hall

an opportunity to test the local brew.

Nice one, Ste.

Graeme

Hi Graeme,

I haven't been through all the pages of this thread so I apologise if I'm repeating information!

The East Riding of Yorkshire Imperial Yeomanry had a Riding School & Gymnasium build on Walton Street in Hull (opposite the fairground) in 1904/5; it was opened by the Colonel, Lord Wenlock, on 11th March 1905.

The actual riding school part was demolished many years ago, but the barrack complex was 'L' shaped I believe and part of that remains today as Wenlock Barracks (fronting onto Anlaby Road), still used by the TA (B (250 Hull) Squadron, 5 Medical GS Regiment) and Cadets.

I haven't any photos of the barracks today, but I have some scanned images of the original Riding School taken from the Souvenir Brochure for the Bazaar held to help pay for it, printed in 1906, if you'd be interested.

Hope that is of some help/interest!

Regards,

Neil

Fab info, Neil.

I'd love a copy of the pictures, and indeed, copies of the brochure.

The task of paying for the new premises was faced by many units, and fetes and bazaars were common means of raising funds.

Thanks!

Graeme

Graeme,

Unfortunately the brochure is at home in the UK (I'm in Milan most of the time) so that will have to wait for another time. However here are the shots of the Riding School.

Neil.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
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For Information


The drill hall of the 2nd Battalion, The Monmouthshire Regiment at Pontypool was knocked down about a month ago.


Regards


David

As confirmed by the Guiness Book of Records, Britain's longest pub name is fairly near to me on Astley Street, Stalybridge. It's the "The Old Thirteenth Cheshire Astley Volunteer Rifleman Corps Inn".

Piccie here. Clickety click.

Thanks, Neil.

Great inside and outside shots of premises that allowed recruits to become proficient on horseback.

Thanks

Graeme

Thanks for the info, David.

This just underlines the point of my project, as these places are being turned into 'brownfield' sites on a weekly basis.

Don't suppose anyone's got any pictures of the now-gone drill hall?

Graeme

John

Just reading the name has made me thirsty!

Do they keep a nice pint?

Graeme

Graeme - no idea, mate. I'm not even sure where the pub is. My knowledge of StalyVegas (as it is known since the council put some lights along the canal) is limited to the Library (which used to house the Manc. Regt. Archives), a non-too shabby chippy and the Buffet at the Railway Station (which DOES keep a very nice pint and is a mecca for the real ale enthusiast)

Gwyn - any ideas from your old OS maps of how the boozer might have got its name? Google is unhelpful.

John

Hello John

D'you mean the pub in Stalybridge?

I don't actually possess many old OS maps, but sometimes helpful contacts copy and post me their own, or extracts from them, or I go into local libraries. You could try putting the location into the seach facility on old-maps.co.uk then enlarging and enlarging till you can read the small details. (There's an enhanced enlargement facility box, too.)



Gwyn

I've corrected the URL for old-maps.co.uk (with hyphen). The hyphen is important; oldmaps.co.uk (no hyphen) is defunct.

I've reinserted the URL yet again. For some reason, it was pointing at oldmaps.com even though I amended it. This one works.

I did. I've had a look on the old-maps site - it's never heard of Stalybridge.

No probs - an excuse to go and find it sometime

It has, though it spells it Stayley Bridge. As I've never been to Stalybridge, I don't know where to start looking for this pub. I'll try the link you gave as a starter.

Gwyn

Edited:

Key in Stalybridge and ask it to search on ‘place’. Do a maximum zoom with Holy Trinity church virtually at the centre. Then click on Enlarged view. Scroll around and find High Street which runs into Grosvenor Street, which veers off to the right. Under Grosvenor Street is a block of streets. I can’t read them all but Grasscroft Street is clear, and this is shown on Streetmap as being four streets north of and running parallel to Astley Street.

I can find this area on the enlarged map but not anything specifically military. Not yet, anyway. Am tired of peering. Am off for a cappuccino.

Edited this morning:

However, there is a rifle range just south of the municipal boundary close to that block of streets. On the enlarged image, it's south of Gorse Hall, which is just north of the E in STALYBRIDGE, which is north east of the T in STOCKPORT, and north east of the second D in DUKINFIELD, and they appear to be firing at Hough Hill.

Gwyn

John - the problem finding Stalybridge wasn't your fault. I checked the URL and it was pointing at another site, even though I'd corrected it.

Gwyn

Thanks. Intersting site. As you say, no sign of anything military - might have an "outing" tomorrow to see.

John

Graeme's database lists the drill hall at Walmsley Street. I have no idea where that was cos I don't know the place.

There are images of the drill hall at Stalydridge on the Tameside Archives site Images section. Search on Drill hall. One is a poignant photo of men not far out of adolescence lined up for training. When I think what I was doing when I was their age, or more relevantly what the lads I knew were doing, and the biggest question of an evening was whether to go to the Vine or the Bird In Hand.....

Gwyn

Right then. Stalybridge - sorted!

A bit of research last night tells me that the drill hall of the Stalybridge Company of 6/Cheshires was at Vaudrey Street. This is, literally, round the corner from Astley Street where the Rifleman pub is. So, connection sorted.

I had a trip out this morning - hoping to visit aforementioned decent chippy. Alas, it is no more. And neither is the drill hall. The piccie on the link provided by Gwyn shows the building on Vaudrey Street (going uphill to Astley Street - out of shot).

The site is now generally occupied by 1960/70s housing but one clue as to its existance remains. On the left-hand side of the site, there is what is clearly the "back entrance" to the old drill hall yard. The archway (dated 1877) now only provides access to the back yard of one of the row of terraced houses.

Nice one, John.

I take it that you didn't make it to the chippie - how 'bout the pub?

Seriously, you've provided a number of bits of info here, all mightily valuable.

Most grateful

Graeme

'fraid I'm on the wagon these days, but I did look at it longingly.

Wilson's beer - not too common round north east Cheshire.

J

here's another pic for you, the proposed Drill Hall, pictured in a fund raising bazaar leaflet

WOW! That's amazing, Chris. It's quite different in tone from that lovely architectural drawing, but equally characterful.

Would you be able to scan and share what the rest of the leaflet said, and the programme of events? Please.

For anyone who doesn't know Ashton, the final built result was not very different from the concept shown in these drawings.

Gwyn

Brilliant, Chris.

As Gwyn rightly points out, it's not too far removed from the reality of what exists.

The scale in the leaflet is a bit odd, though... Makes the troops in the foreground look like toy soldiers.

Curious, though, that these places were often built, then the money raised afterwards.

Graeme

Chris

Is the leaflet dated?

Reason for asking is that all of the foreground including upto where the troops are, has had buildings on it for obviously a long while (late 19th century terraced properties)

John

Yes, I was wondering that sort of thing myself, because although I hardly know Ashton, the aerial photos on the Tameside Archives website show the drill hall surrounded by terraced housing, in c.1920.

Image here, plus others - found by searching on 'armoury'.

The actual drawing struck me as a nineteenth century version of a rather fanciful architect's fly-thru of how wonderfully improved one's countryside is going to look after remodelling with Hy-mac! Even so, they built it like that...

(Modern picture Post #448. Drill hall built 1886.)

Gwyn

At Bromsgrove, don't know what the future is:



A close up of the badge, 8th Worcesters:

It probably is dated, but I didn't take any note of it. but don't forget thats an artist's impression!

the drill hall was opened in 1887, for the 7th Lancs Rifle Volunteers (in 1888 they became the 3rd Vol Batt Manchester Regiment)

I don't know when Ashton's terraces where built up, but thats around the time when they would have started

Thanks Chris. I'll have a nosy next time I'm in town. I have a feeling the terrace has a date plaque.

John

Up until a couple of years ago, it was used by an electricians' company.

Previously used as a temporary sorting office by the then GPO.

Another waste of a usefully-sized hall which could benefit the communityin some way.

Great pictures, thanks.
Graeme

Hello Graeme

Did you ever find any pictures of Aston Barracks, the home of the 8th Bn, The Royal Warwickshire Regiment ?

I have never seen them. Just know of their location on old maps.

regards

Terry Carter

Unfortunately not, Terry.

If i do, you'll be the first to know!

Graeme

On the side of the old labour exchange, Redditch, now a doctor's surgery.
Not sure if the drill hall was next door - the old bus depot.

Thanks, Geoff

I'm of the impression that the drill hall was behind the viewer, demolished to make way for the Redditch Raceway (or is that ring road?)

Nice that they kept the crest.

Graeme,
you are right, I vaguely remember this red brick building which would have been behind me to the the right. I was recently told that the bus station was used as a drill hall - perhaps this was WW2. The same fellow also told me (30 years ago) that a ridge tile was damaged on the drill hall roof by a rifle shot (WW2). Not sure if this was true! Also took a wider angle photo, complete with graffitti. Fortunately the crest is out of reach of spray cans.

The crypto stuff? Did you find the link to Breaking German Wehrmacht Ciphers?

Hi Graeme,

first timer on this Drill Hall thread. I've done some work with Rufus Leonard Design Consultants who occupy the Old Drill Hall at Farringdon in London. My collecting habit is the London Rifle Brigade otherwise known as the 5th London. Their Drill Hall come Museum at 130 Bunhill Row EC in the City of London was closed down in the early 1960's and some of the archive was transferred to the guildhall and some to the IWM. I am recipient of a 2nd Ypres Field Pocket Notebook owned by Sgt Frank Legg which had been originally plucked out of therubbish bin by a LRB collector who happened to be there when they were destroying part of the stuff !

I have a 1906 LRB Diary with pictures of: the Drill Hall Interior, the Canteen, the Recreation and Billiard Room and the Morris Tube Range - PM me if you'd like photographs of these.

One question for you and the pals - can anyone provide me with a photograph of the LRB Drill Hall and Museum before it was closed - 1950/60's please ?

Thanks

Peter Leonard

Hi Graeme

I have managed to track down some photos of the interior of the 19th Londons drill hall in 76 Camden High Street. Please email me and I can email copies to you.

Whilst in Cornwall over the Easter weekend I vistied the Drill Hall at Falmouth and took some better photos. Happy to send these to you. It is still up for sale, and still in need of repair. However, it does appear to be in use, seeming to be some sort of indoor market for secondhand clothes with numerous stalls. I was able to go inside and have a look around the hall. Couldnt see any plaques/memorials etc though the walls were largely covered up.

I also found the drill hall in Helston, now the folk museum: click here. The museum extended into the drill hall in 1999. I have several photos for you of the exterior.

Charles

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Hello John and Dragon,
The drill hall in Stalybridge was in an area of the town called Castle Hall - a built up area of hundreds of small terraced houses. Its exact location was Astley Street, between Walmsley Street and Springbank Street - Vaudrey Street was a few blocks away. I'm pretty sure it was demolished in the 1960's, I remember it being used as a roller skating rink for a short time when I was a child and my older sister remembers concerts being held there in the 1950's.
Don't know if this will work but I'm going to try and attach a few images - one of the outside of the building, one showing recruits inside the building and one taken outside looking down Walmsley Street.
Incidentally, as well as the " Rifleman " being in the Guiness Book of Records as the pub with the longest name, Stalybridge also has the pub with the shortest name - the Q.
Hope this is of use.

Hello Poppy Lou & welcome to the Forum

I'm sure Graeme will appreciate the photos you have. I've already sent him photos of the area as it is now. The only existing trace is an arched entrance doorway that goes through the line of terrced houses at the other end of the site from that shown in your photo.

John

Wonderful photos, Poppy Lou, and I know Graeme will be well pleased to see 'em. Welcome to the Forum BTW.

Jim

Hi Graeme

Two I know of in my immediate area

1/5 South Staffordshire in Walsall - still in existence.
1st/2nd North Midland Coy, Royal Engineers - still in existence in Cannock.

If you haven't details of theses already I' m happy to photograph them and seek out relevant info for you.

All the best

Ken

Having just seen these messages, I'll post a holding reply until Graeme is able to visit the forum himself.

PoppyLou, thank you very much. Where we do not have copyright permissions to use images on the website, we have an alternative. If I send you an email with some information, would you be able to help me locate exactly where the drill hall was, please?

I'd also like to ask you about your memories of the drill hall, for the Nostalgia pages, to which Jim, above, has contributed some lovely memories of his past.

Graeme's base information on Stalybridge comes from Kelly's Directory 1904, so if there is confusion about the accuracy of the address, blame Kelly or his assistants! Everything I've seen has shown me that Graeme has been absolutely meticulous in his data gathering.

Ken, looking at the Staffordshire section with the individual towns' webpages which we have already completed, I see that Graeme has several photos of Walsall, but it doesn't look as if there's one of Cannock, unless I missed it when I was putting photos to towns, which is quite possible. Therefore, a picture would be great! Thanks.

Any local information, source data, memories or snippets which can be added are always welcome, to bring the buildings alive. I've tried to take interior photos too, where possible.

Many thanks to both of you. I'm certain Graeme will be very appreciative.

Gwyn

I will be pleased to share my memories - and those of my husband, sister and others. Will await your email.
John's ( or is it Jim?) information regarding the archway is I'm afraid incorrect, there is nothing at all left standing of the drill hall. And it was demolished early 70's so my husband says, prior to this it was used by army cadets as their HQ and then left empty- to be vanalised I'm sorry to say.

Poppy Lou

If you look at the photo in my post #469, you'll see the archway. If you're familiar with the street, I'm sure that you'll agree that it cannot be anything other than an entrance into what would have been the drill parade ground. The full set of photos I took for Graeme also show it from the "other side", taken from the uphill street in the photo you post, and across what are now the back gardens of the houses.

John

Hello John,
I'm attaching part of an old map of Stalybridge ( 1897 ) which clearly shows the position of the Drill Hall. As you will see, Vaudrey Street was three blocks away. There was a Foresters Hall on Vaudrey Street, before my time, which I believe was used by many organisations for many different reasons.
The type of arch entrance on your photograph was quite common in Castle Hall, they generally led on to large shared back yards and some were the entrances to stables. I have a book " Streets away from Paradise " written by Eli Hague which includes a chapter on his memories of the Drill Hall when he was a lad.
There's nothing in the book to say I can't copy this and send it to you if you're interested.
Just out of interest, what was the name of the " chippy " you mentioned in a previous posting?
Poppy Lou

Click to view attachment

Looks like my attachment didn't work so I'll try again

The triangle you see opposite the Drill Hall was a patch of grass used for gun practice
Poppy Lou

Hello Poppy Lou

I've sent you an email via the forum system. (It'll come into your email account with the sender listed as 'Great War Forum' and may go straight into spam.)

That map is fantastic. My email included something about the 1882 map, which is clearly redundant as yours is so much better and clearer.

Would it be possible for me to have a copy of the map and the extracts of memories which you mention? Obviously I wouldn't reproduce it (copyright) but I'd like to read it. Do you know the original source of the map? The email will explain why I'm keen to know.

I'm sorry if I seem vague about some things in my answers to you in this thread. A huge amount of work has been invested in the website and I don't want to share my ideas and concepts publicly before the site is live. That's also why I often remove my own photos after a short time. They'll be available for public view under my terms and my copyright not the forum copyright in due course. Until then, I guard closely my own intellectual property.

I'll make contact about personal memories.

Gwyn

For interest, Graeme's database lists the Stalybridge drill hall as being built in 1880 at a cost of over £5000. Source is Kelly, 1896 and 1914. I mistakenly wrote 1904 below, but it was half past two in the morning.... The fact that Astley street adjoins Walmsley street explains Kelly's reference to Walmsley street - he sometimes makes an error if a building is on a corner or if one street runs into another. Newark is an example of a place where I had to search closely to track down the right address of one of its drill halls, when I did a site visit there to take photos. Sometimes so much is clarified or confirmed when one sees a contemporary map.

Having viewed the Historical Directories to check, I see that Kelly records the Foresters Hall on Vaudrey street as a separate building. Again, I mention this just for interest.

Gwyn

Hello Gwyn,
I haven't received your email, unless I've deleted it by mistake. I get so much spam that sometimes I do this.
I'll check again tomorrow, if it's not there I'll let you know.
Will send you copies of map etc.
Map can be obtained from http:/www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/acatalog/
Click England - Northern England - Cheshire - NE Cheshire (Tameside) and it's ref Ch 3.10 Stalybridge 1897 and costs £2.20
Poppy Lou

Thanks, Poppy Lou.

I have a copy so I can resend (and take out the superfluous refs to the map I mentioned).

Interesting Stalybridge website, by the way. Is it your own? The pictures are evocative; images to treasure.

Gwyn