Superb info - thanks for the offer of a picture which I'll take you up on

Graeme

Hello Graeme,

What a great thread you have running here. I haven't had a chance to look through it all yet, but I was just wondering if you knew about the old drill hall for F/Coy of the 1/7th Manchesters on Cromwell Road opposite the old Public Baths in Eccles, Greater Manchester.

F/Coy consisted of more than 120 locally recruited Patricroft (Peel Green and Winton too) men with the rest being Wigan Recruitees.

There is a great site done by some local historians/enthusiasts in Eccles to which I have provided a link below. The Drill Hall is pictured about half way down the page. In modern times it has been used as a Cub Scout HQ (for the 10th Eccles I think) and more recently as a gym.

http://freespace.virgin.net/paul.cesnav/misc.htm

enjoy,
Dave PBI

Thanks for this, Dave and for the information on the Company. Apologies for the delay in responding.

Both Graeme and I have visited the drill hall in Eccles and last time I saw it, it was in a very sad state indeed. Is it still standing, do you know?

Gwyn

Gwyn, Graeme

Pleased to hear that you received the photos I took of ths Sandwich Drill Hall in Kent.

I also did some more research into the Falmouth drill hall when I was down in Cornwall a couple of weeks ago. Its still for sale (put perhaps under offer) and the agent's website says that it is a mere £495,000. I have sent you some more photos and the particulars with some maps to come.

BTW, did you get the photos of the Newport IOW drill hall for the IOW Rifles that I sent sometime before Xmas (I think)? If not, I can resend.
Charles

BTW, did you get the photos of the Newport IOW drill hall for the IOW Rifles that I sent sometime before Xmas (I think)? If not, I can resend.

Charles did you get a picture of the artillery drill hall across the road, before it was demolished, as I missed its going.

Gareth

Hello Charles

Thank you; I have replied (in some detail!) about Falmouth.

In case others are interested, I quoted from the Cornwall Historical Characterisation for Regeneration survey, 2005. In the survey's section on Archeological Potential, it says that one of the negative features of Falmouth is 'the current derelict appearance of the Drill Hall, potentially one of the area's architectural jewels.' [My italics]

The survey recommends:
'Ensure the long term retention, refurbishment and beneficial re-use of the Drill Hall, on the corner of Berkeley Vale and Brook Street. This is a building of striking design and, if refurbished, would serve as a spectacular landmark at a key entry point to the town's central core. Given an appropriate use - one which reflects the quality of the building and location - it has the potential to act as a focus for further regeneration. In particular, its distinctiveness and sense of significance should inspire comparable responses in designing replacements for the poor later twentieth century developments in its immediate vicinity.'

Excellent thinking.

I would be very interested to read anything about the original construction of the premises.


I can't find any emails at all about IoW and I'm pretty methodical.

The project is deeply appreciative of your continuing interest; thank you! (The organ grinder is not available at the moment, so you have the monkey.)

Gwyn

Gareth - I know you were speaking to Charles, but I had a quick look in the project database and couldn't spot any photos for you.

Gwyn - I will dig out the photos of the IOW Rifles DH and send. I took them last October, but perhaps didnt send them at the time.

Gareth - sadly not. Was it standing opposite the IOW DH where there is now a car park? Wish I had paid more attention as I have been on the IOW quite regularly over the last few years.

Charles, thank you. I'd be very grateful. Something somewhere has a capricious notion of spam, so periodically decides I'm not grown-up enough to view emails and decide for myself.

Public thanks too for that fantastic selection of material. My Inbox was singing.

Gwyn

Charles
Gareth - sadly not. Was it standing opposite the IOW DH where there is now a car park? Wish I had paid more attention as I have been on the IOW quite regularly over the last few years.

Not quite, the car park is the site of the once extensive M/T and Gun Sheds, the drill hall itself was fronted by the rather pretty rubbed red brick facade, with arch topped central door, that was directly opposite the entrance to the Rifles drill hall.

Gareth

Gareth

If anything crops up, I'll pass it on.

Meanwhile, the mere confoirmation that it's gone, and its position, is very valid information

Thanks, chaps

Graeme

Gwyn, Graeme

Today I found the location of the drill hall in Sandgate, Kent. It was at 2 Castle Road, next door to Sandgate Castle. I went into the archives of the Sandgate Society a short distance away and found maps and photos which they said that you would be welcome to have on the website. Emails to follow.

The bad news is that the building was demolished only 2 weeks ago. In the few months that I have been living in this part of the world I have walked or driven past it several times without realising. It was boarded up, fenced off, and in a very poor state. Had I only known I would have taken photos weeks ago.... b***ocks!

Thank you for all your efforts, Charles. The maps and photo will be greatly appreciated.

I'm gutted about Sandgate. I was supposed to be able to go to Kent a few weeks ago, but I couldn't travel with pneumonia, so I missed the opportunity.

Would your excellent idea of a 'drill halls at risk' page have encouraged someone to go and photograph it? Who knows. Maybe. We hear about these proposals too late. Don't reproach yourself.

Gwyn

I've found information which says that this building has been demolished, but the site is used by the Gas Board as a depot.

Gwyn

Graeme
I live in Hastings and have searched thread for "Hastings" "St. Leonards"
I dont know if you had any feed back from Sues report on East Sussex
If you havent would be happy to reseach and visit possible sites here if you havent had any info
Also on reading cinemas in hastings fairly sure a number were used as Drill Hall at one time (not the big ones but small local ones)
Let me know if of any interest to you and I will start searching if it helps

From "A Half Crown Holy Boy" by Ronald Coxford

6th (Cyclist) Bn Norfolk Regt

There was a Coy at Watton

Chris

Greame
Have contact with 73 year old who knows and used Rock a Nore Hastings
Outside your time frame?? Shall I pursue???

Hello kebabking

Graeme originally defined the scope of his project as broadly the drill halls of the Territorial Army 1908 - 1914, although it has expanded somewhat and we have been very grateful for information and photos outside that period. A lot of the early drill halls are well before 1908. We've excluded drill halls that were constructed after the Great War (with a couple of exceptions).

We have reference in the database to Kelly, 1911, listing the left section of the 5th, and part of the 6th Sussex Batteries, 2nd Home Counties Brigade Royal Field Artillery at the drill hall in Rock-a-Nore road; also to Middle street. Without trying to search through nearly a thousand pictures, I can't tell you whether we have any photos or not, (Graeme would know), but we're very happy to have up to date or archive ones, and any information is very gratefully accepted and added to the resource.

The reminiscences of someone who remembers a drill hall in use would sit very nicely in the Memorabilia section, where we have people's memories (including a couple of Forum friends' recollections). It adds to the validity of the project as social history and shows ways in which communities valued their drill halls. So -speaking for myself - I'd say that your friend's memories would be valued and respected.

Thank you for your interest!

Gwyn


Chris - I sent you an email. Thanks.

Dragon
Middle street demolished for new shopping centre (along with Cricket Ground bequethed to town!!!!!!!)
Have read recollections of woman who lived there early this century.Will get again from library.
Do I take that as yes for me to research Hastings and St. Leonards then??????
EDIT Silly me! read that as "last century"

Take it as "Gwyn doesn't know", please, because we have some St Leonard's pictures and I don't know where / who they came from; and I don't want you to waste time. Photos are up-to-date records, and the reminiscences you mentioned would be unusual and interesting, but I'm not sure what documents, etc, anyone else has sent Graeme. He's best placed to answer your question regards researching and I'm sure he will when he's in a position to do so.

I'm not ungrateful, I just don't know the right answer to that specific question.

Thanks for the information about Middle street. Sadly, that is not uncommon. Sometimes all we have are the fading black-and-white photos, if anyone bothered to take a picture at all.

Gwyn

I have seen a very old ??? picture of Middle Street DH I am hoping its in that womans recollections book if not I have a lot of backtracking to do to find it.
Also let me know about researching the "Local" Hastings Observer loves all this nostalgia business and I am hopefull that a letter to their readers requesting old photos would pay dividends

We're always grateful for anyone who pays a visit to the places we have listed; please take your camera!
Often the drill hall's long gone, but if someone says 'it was demolished in 1986 and is now Tesco' then that's valid.

Hastings lists Rock-a-Noree Road and Middle street, St Leonards has Hatherly road, Church street, Cinque Ports way, Recreation Ground and Tower Road West. I have pictures of Hatherly road but would be grategul for anything else

Thanks

Graeme

Thanks, Chris.

I believe there were premises in Dereham way - couls anyone confirm?

Cheers

Graeme

A photo would be fantastic, especially if it's now demolished.
If you think the local paper might prove useful, why not drop them a line?
The Forum gets some publicity, and so does drillhalls.org - and you do too!

Graeme

I hope you have more success with the local paper than I did.

First, the good. No-one seemed to know where I could find a photo of my town's drill hall. One day, avidly reading that week's edition of the local paper, with its tales of Asbos among the local yoofs, car parking charges and the heinous fixing of the Gooseberry Growing Competition, and perusing the plaintive letters about car parking and the theft of Eric's giant gooseberry, I skimmed the week's Archive Photo and did a double take, got out my magnifying glass and sure enough, there was the drill hall!

So I sped off to the newspaper offices and asked the secretary whether it really was the drill hall, and she, being rather older than I, and a true local, which I am not, said yes, it was. I explained my interest and she offered to email a .jpg.

Apparently - and I have no reason to think that other local papers don't do this - there's a box in which someone once dumped a pile of old pictures, which someone else means to go through when they've got a few minutes to spare. Anything old which comes in goes in there. I said I'd go and sort it out for them, when I have a few minutes to spare.

So that was good, and it might be worth contacting the paper as a resource in its own right, and asking to rummage.

Archives of local newspapers are likely to be in the local library, on fiche. With any luck, someone will have catalogued them.

Then the bad. I wrote them a piece, appealing to their readers to send me photos and memories, and received........


......... nothing.

From that, and from feedback, I deduced that it's essential to provide a means by which people can get in touch with you if they're not computer based (ie not email), which apparently deterred readers on the octagenarian circuit. They just didn't know how to contact me.

However, I have had fantastic help from some local papers, and one retired editor went through all his archives back to 1899 for me, which was wonderful. And the other advantage is that local papers will print almost any old rubbish, provided it's legal, so you have a very good chance of having your spot on the letters page at least.

Good luck.

Gwyn

... of course, this can also work against you........

A member of the Forum congratulated me on an article in the local history paper.

'cept I hadn't written it. All the information was cobbled together by a clever journalist who'd done what I've done - robbed the internet - and published a learned piece on drill halls.

She'd even kindly used my words and suppositions as fact without any qualification....

I, and Gwyn, with the help of you lovely people, have attempted to create a record where none existed; the input of information both on- and off-Forum has been staggering. You might spend your time on Uncle Ernie's time in the trenches, I've chosen drill halls, and have had an incredible response from some lovely people. My membership of this Forum has enriched my project manifold. Thank you to all the contributors so far.

I hope my project brings something to the party. Cheap journalism merely brings Lambrusco and drinks all the Stella Artois.

Thanks, folks; your input and interest makes it worthwhile

Graeme

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

[Queen Victoria's Rifles, Davies Street, London, W1. This is where my great uncle enlisted in 1915.

Hi Lads been out to library this morning
Middle Street
Nice stuff here
Short article from local dated 1895 of opening with drawing of front plus text description
Fuzzy photo return of 1st Cinque Ports Rifle Volunteers from Soutj Africa 1901
Goodish photo 5th Bat Royal Sussex Reg leaving hall 1 jul 1909 (good side angle shot of hall) Hastings Police parading inside hall 24 sep 27
Text from Cinque Ports Gazette with memories of hall
Cinque Ports Way
Is not on 1909 OS but is on 1929 OS
Invitation for drinks at hall (sorry undated)
Rock a Nore
No picture but refers HAS OB 31 oct 1986 re demolision
Tower road West
Have horrid suspision redevolped within last year
2 to add to list
Tackleway
Believe the raggety school used as drill hall (still to get in touch 73 year old who knows inside out
Grove Road Ore
Still standing now wood merchant .Been so last 25 years previous workshop for ?ALVA cars
Owner really nice guy.Some alterations but loads original features Original floor in parts ANDone wall behind some shelving which owner and myself 90% sure original paint
Am borrowing sons digi camera so will be out soon
Am leaving letter to H Ob till after elections. If can catch a no news week they often follow up letter with article of their own
Have no scanner so PM address where to send stuff so far

Gosh. Wow!

Thank you. You seem to have unearthed some gems! Very much looking forward to seeing it!

Gwyn(eth)

(See profile. Not a lad, though thinking of adopting honorary bloke status after numerous comments on this forum over the years. )

Tony, thank you very much for the pictures to add to London.

Would it be possible to email images to either Graeme or me? That way we get better quality pictures.

It must have been moving to see where your great uncle enlisted. Did he survive?

Gwyn

Gwyn
Got Pm ok
Answer is I dont know will ask library
Had to rush for hospital appointment earlier
Grove Rd Address still THe Drill Hall Grove road
Recreation ground
Cant place this/Have got someone working on it for me
Forgot to look for church St
One oddity
Grove road,Cinque Ports way, and Rock a Nore all next to Mortuary on OS map (is this usual)
Will post what I have tomorrow hopefully

Do you mean was it usual for drill halls to be next to mortuaries?

I know that the drill hall in St Cross road, Oxford, was just down the road from a mortuary chapel, but I'm certain this was coincidence, because the chapel is ancient.

Some drill halls were used as hospitals in the Great War and some were very close to buildings used as war hospitals, so I don't know whether this is significant in the context of mortuary locations. I hadn't really thought about it, because Oxford is the only one I'd noticed (but I hadn't been looking for the connection). Were these drill halls taken into use for hospitals?

I can't generalise, so I don't know, but it's an interesting concept which I'll try to follow up. It might apply to some drill halls. Public buildings tend to beget other public buildings.

I do know that a fair number of drill halls were conveniently situated within reach of a station.

Gwyn

Mortuaries
Rock a Nore off 1909 OS Sent u a copy along with one of Middle St in package just posted (Royal Mail that is)
A bit of joy
Just up that way so looked for Tower road West
Still there now garage (repairs) the owner seemed quite proud when asked if could take photos (havent yet) seemed quite large told story of 3 tanks being stored there after 2nd WW. Would not have found unless got location from OS map at library.

Good news; thank you.

The old OS maps are often very useful in pinpointing the location of a drill hall. We have quite a few reproduced (with permission) on the website.

Gwyn

Heres a new "What is now?" for you I hope
Rock a Nore is now Shipwreck Heritage Centre
Drove past it (possibly) some of DH incorporated into new building ,some of the brick work looked old
Do u want photo if it is
When I have do photos must mention dont do emails,hate the things,only have so can join places like this forum.
Have just discussed with son he suggests printing them here then posting (MAIL) would that be OK

Drove past it (possibly) some of DH incorporated into new building ,some of the brick work looked old
Do u want photo if it is

Yes please!

Have just discussed with son he suggests printing them here then posting (MAIL) would that be OK

Oh yes! No problem. We can scan. Or put the files on CD, which would save you paper and ink.

We're very grateful for your input. Thank you.

Gwyn

Right been out and about
Cinque Ports Way
Still there although derelict
Only point of interest built next to it is a modern large complex active for Forces recruitment and still TA
As I said not 1909 OS but on 1929 looks 20s build to me.
Has an 8ft high security around complex which includes DH
Have some photos but difficult with fence and can foresee loads of problems if I try to get inside (health and safety etc)
Rock a Nore
As I suspected the ground floor of the Drill Hall has been used to create single floor Shipwreck Centre possibly because although Listed was dangerous
No sign of the mortuaries at either venue
the Bulverhythe pic is maybe the Recreation ground but still need those details of adjacent roads
One problem we have here SALT
It is obviously in the air however a lot of cheapskate builders in late 1800s used sand from the beach which had salt in it and a lot of the mortar breaks down quicker than it would inland.
So far Grove Rd looks to have most interest and will record as much as i can (that paint and the interior roof )
Here is a photo of back of Grove road taken from B & Qs which is on the site of the mortuary showing problems with brick workClick to view attachment

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Top pic shows Rock a Nore looking west with entrance to Shipwreck centre
Bottom shows cobbled entrance into hall (would this be correct)

Some impressive pictures!

The image of the decaying brickwork shows one of the problems that affect these places. Earlier drill halls were built for the Rifle Volunteers by local worthies, often the O.C. of the unit, or by the Volunteers' own fundraising efforts.

And whilst some raised huge amounts, others had to cut their cloth accordingly, and if a few quid could be saved on the quality of the bricks, so be it.

I have no references to the Cinque Ports way premises in any of my research, but it seems to be of the right period.

I'd found a reference to Rock a Nore elsewhere that suggested the premises next door (Underwater World) were built on the drill hall site, but that cobbled entrance is a good sign.

Keep it coming, Kebabking!

Graeme

Whatever the quality of the brickwork, it's still there after the best part of a hundred years.

Looks like erosion (sand, wind) to me and frost damage. There is evidence of efflorescence too.

Gwyn

Efflorescence? Ooo, 'ark at 'er.....

Graeme

What evidence have you come across that the MOD has made millions selling off ex volunteer drill halls and rifle ranges that they in fact had no title to?

It is my understanding of the situation that they would have title to those drill halls built by the Territorial Association, but possible not those built for Rifle Voluteer units, those probably belonging to the local communities who raise the money in the first place.

Again it is my understanding that RV property was requisitioned for the duration of WW1, and then never returned. Have local communities lost assets because of this oversight I wonder.

Gareth

Re Underwater World: Looking at the cobbled view UW is the far building
What would help is if The Dragon can tell me from OS I sent her how related
In the cobbled view I am standing ouside church so going east should be drill hall then mortuary
If its church mortuary DH then its the mortuary (though looks too big , and life time local told me it was DH but never believe a fisherman)
Also anyone done Rye or Battle ,have def seen photos of Rye, would help if u had address as I think I would have to go Lewes for OS (leave me alone perhaps after R & B )
Guess Gwyn never got PM (sent as site settling down)
Need any info on Recreation Ground as no record here (could be a multipul of sites)
Also in PM Do u want sample of paint from Grove road (have a couple primitive ideas how to achieve but would be glad of any advice)
Am going to have card made " Hallo you might find this strange but am researching for someone Drill Halls in situ 1914-18"
Will save a lot of time

Hi

I'm not sure which PM.

I don't think that a sample of real paint would be appropriate, and you might get arrested for vandalism. A photo is fine.

Looking at the OS, along Rock-a-Nore road, the buildings are: ( West) urinal - space- fishermen's church - unlabelled building - drill hall - mortuary (East). I would scan and post it, but I'm going out. Sorry.

The drill hall in Battle was / is High street and the one in Rye Cinque Ports street. (Kelly 1911)

Apologies for brevity. We do appreciate your efforts. There really is no urgency (unless it's evidently on the point of demolition) because we're not planning to load Sussex for at least another month, then you'll be able to see what we have.

Gwyn

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
There has been subsidence at rear of building New? brick work with ties (the grey bits at bottom)
The front has been rebricked (apart from side entrance) but ? original window put back
Gwyn I make u right about eff..eff..eff... powdering

Reference post 639
Not this Cinque Ports Way then
Would correctly be CPW St. Leonards
Have seen an OS where CPW is on map but road ( its more like a little stub running to sea) unnamed
AS stated before not on OS 1909 but on OS 1929 (one of the two its unamed) have made a note to get OS copy for you

Been to site of middle street.Now back of Priory Meadow shopping centre. Have taken pic from where the one I sent you was taken.Very boring!
Been Tower Road West
Thought initially was straight forward. Not at all. Under the Hall are some arches accessed through a National Builders merchants.Leaving through the back of the hall through what is now fire escape is another building also accessed from buiders yard.Which from the floor construction appears to have been stables
Went to builders asked to take photos after a bit of ummimg etc given ok as long as I didnt photograph anything with their logo on.???? Beats me!
Went to hathersly road on way back. Lovely building but appears built in 2 phases. The corner of Hathersly and Southwater road has different details on windows etc than the Hall that would be described as in Southwater Road.Still being used but no one there will try to gain access later.
This may explain Rock a Nore as from Gwyns details of map the bit I photoed was next to church.2 phases that is.
Went to Church Road
Cant understand this as it is literally round corner from substantial Hath Road which would have been all that was needed in the area /One possible /need to go library for OS. If u want anything OS maps etc let me know./
Problem I have now is my memory failing me. Computer memory that is . need to get more before i load photos dont want to lose them
Photoed Grove road. no problem if you want paint .Guv their very accomadating unlike The Army at Cinque Ports Way who never seem to be there.Solved the 2 types of brick.Back dug out to expose foundations and then tied.So the man said.
AhHH Just seen as I went to enter post"Church Street" Can i have some details of surrounding as we have lots of Church St/ roads in Hastings and St.Leonards as the town grew into surrounding villages.
PS Just to balance things out a bit Tower Road West near old Maternity Hospital

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Middle St ! Need I say more
Cinque Ports Way showing :Fence,dereliction, and new buildings (Top)

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Tower Road West
Top: Hall with arches below
Bottom: Inside arches
You have to realise Hastings is very hilly the hall is below the level of Tower Road West and then the arches are at the level of a lane adjacent to maternity hospital

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Top:Hatherley Road from Southwater Road Note the details of brick work above windows etc
Bottom: Hatherley Road from Hatherley Road again hilly a fair drop from rear to front

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Detail of paint on rear interior wall Grove Road.The paint extends all along the wall be it patchy. The plaster behind is a light blue which even if not natioanlly then locally I think would be historically correct.
Will check with my builder pal and correct if need be.The numbers 3&4 were the only ones on the wall I could find although some of wall is obscured by shelvingClick to view attachment