Interesting angle!

I've not looked into this, but yeah....

It would be interesting to follow the chain of ownership, particularly of the older halls.


Any ideas out there?

Graeme

Been over to Rye for you
This proved to be quite a saga
Cruised Cinque Ports Steet. Nothing obvious,Went library> "Have you 1909 1910 OS map of Rye please"
"Sorry ,we only get Hastings cast offs and they have the copy of that"
Still lovely librarian on discovering what I was after got me a couple of books so I started rummaging. Kept finding reference DH in Rope Walk Agricultural Hall.After about an hour I thought I had better check Kellys 1907 was all they had. Under Volunters there it was "Armoury"
Then established untill 1912 the DH was Agricultural Hall with armoury in Cinque Ports St when it moved to a custom built hall in Windmill lane.
Went Win Lane now Volunteer Fire Station. At this point I will cut it short and after going from one lead to another ended up at a gents house who lived at 12 Cinque Ports St (the armoury) around WW2.
Fire station built 1989 and DH pulled down shortly before.
In the search I found this which I rather like.
Cinque Ports Battalion
The story of 5th (Cinque Ports) Battalion
The Royal Sussex Regiment (TA)
Author: The late Colonel E.A.C. Fazan MC TD DL
"On March12th (1891) Capt.J.C.Farell , Royal Sussex Regt.,the new Adjutant held his first Inspection,at which the Company mustered 90 all told, and was followed by a Smoking Concert.
At this time .each Company ran its own finances and we give here a short account of E Companys Balance Sheet for the year ended March 31st 1891.On the income side is the Government Capitation grant of £2 per each efficient man,which amounted to £200 and a further grant for Camp and baggage amounting to £53-12-0 Subletting of DH, etc came to £13-14-0. Sundries £5-13-0 and subscription, £7-6-0 , being a total of £280-5-0.

The Expenses were,Rents of Drill Hall, Armoury and Martello Tower £51-1-6; Uniforms, including alterations and repairs, £42-15-6 care of arms, £25-15-9; Camp,£119-9=7; Band £10-8-10; Refreshments for Marchouts £8-9-8; travelling and carriage,outlying detachments, £14-19-5; Gas coal and oil,£7-6-1 Sundries £9-17-7; making a total of £290-3-11 and a deficiency of £9-18-11. As a rule theses deficiences were met by the ladies of Rye organising a dance or garden party,which enabled the bank over draft to be paid off"
I can just see them now in The Volunteer Middle St on a "Marchout"
"Right lads whos for another? Its on expenses"

Thank you for going to all that trouble, KK.

It's good to see that Hatherly road remains. The question you have about the adjacent addresses might be explained by the different uses. I know of at least two towns where the Yeomanry had one drill hall and another unit had the other; and one small town in Cheshire actually had three, two within the same square mile. Because I'm not familiar with Hastings, I'm finding it very hard to track down the road names you're mentioning on the old OS maps, so I'll locate them on Multimap and have a think.

Thank you for going to Rye. A negative is a valid result and helps to fill in gaps on the database. I was away in Kent and East Sussex this week including yesterday, and tracked down a few premises. Some were in use as polling stations and one official told the queue I was a photographer from The Sun.

The information about funding Rye is interesting. I've seen other reports where 'the ladies' organised events to raise funds; it shows the community valuing the drill hall as a prized facility. Are you saying that there's a pub called The Volunteer in Middle Street near where the DH was? If so, you might tell Heritage Plus about it - he's working on a project about pubs with military connections.

Please don't be offended, but I need to make a suggestion. We try to be careful about how much of Chris's bandwidth we take up and this entire thread could easily be a very image-heavy thread. (I've deleted all of mine for that reason.) Would it be possible for you to put your pictures on CD and send them by post? I'm not saying don't put any on the forum, but perhaps an overall building shot is fine for this thread

Cheers

Gwyn

Gwyn
CD: Have PMed Chris I have just put 2 photos per venue on here.
Rye: Found reference to Mill Rd and Windmill Rd so could be either (They are the same road) Should have potted history and picture this weekend.
Volunteer: Long gone, again many references in a variety of books.If its essential will try to back track,wished u had asked ealier.
Rock a Nore: Having given it a great deal of thought and from what I remember of OS. I think this is definitely the unnamed building> Will check Os here again and measure exactly. My thoughts are (because of the cobbled entrance) its a stable. Will check if connected with DH but horses were used to pull up the fishing boats before the use of "tractors" The horses went round and round a capstan on the beach pulling the boats up by means of ropes. Its winches and wires now.

.

This isn't unusual. Kelly's Directories sometimes make mistakes in the road names for drill hall addresses, for example if a DH was on the corner of two roads (eg Chester) or if the road changes its name part-way through (eg Newark). I imagine other agencies make the same mistakes.

Gwyn

Gwyn
Sorry CD should read PMed Graeme not Chris
All in tizz after your telling off.
Not really just back from hospital and brain not properly engaged>

I wasn't telling you off. I thought I was being tactful. I'm sorry if what I said came across the wrong way.

It's just that with you being quite new, you'll have missed Chris's concerns about forum bandwidth and image size.

I hope you're not poorly....

Gwyn

Hi there Graeme,

After having read about your project(and a worthwhile one), I have today been around the Heavy Woollen area(Dewsbury, Batley and Morley) west Yorkshire taking a few photo's for you, but I don't understand about downloading from a digi camera, so will have to wait unit the grandaughter comes back and get her to do it for me.

What I have got is Dewsbury Drill Hall, Bath Street, which was KOYLI, Morley which as the inscription above the door, 7th West Yorkshire Regiment PWO, unfortunatley Batley's Drill Hall as been pulled down and now a supermarket carpark, although before it was pulled down for a short while it became The Yorkshire Fire Museum.

When the Territorials pulled out they moved to Birstall on Intake Lane and have now disbanded and withdrawn to Wakefield I still have to get the picture of Intake Lane.

Hoping this helps in your project, when you eventually get the photo's.

Cheers Roger.

Hi Roger

Thanks for the positive comments.

I'm so glad you've been out and about; without friends like you we'd never cover the country.

Batley may have gone, but in a few words you've confirmed its' status and some more of its' history. Brilliant. Can you confirm that it was on Bradford road?

Dewsbury and Morley will enrich the project no end.

Thanks again, Roger

Graeme

Complementing Roger's photographic expedition, we have some interesting material from Dave (Mruk) about Morley Drill Hall in post 528.

Gwyn

Hi there Graeme,

Indeed Batley Drill Hall used to be on Bradford Road and I lived only about 600 yds from it, and the Intake Lane site they moved to is just at the end of our street.

Cheers Roger.

Hi there Graeme,
I'm hopeless at attaching photo's to this forum, tried numerous times but can't get the size of the file down, the only thing I can think of is by e-mailing you them.

Cheers Roger.

No need now Roger
The site will reduce them for you automatically
Stick them up so we can all see them

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

It really is best to start off with a suitably sized file. Regardless of what the site software does to them, large files take ages to download before resizing and they eat up Chris's bandwidth.

This one of Bury St Edmunds barracks (mine, picked at random) is 500 pixels by 392 pixels, resolution 72, optimised to compression value of 25, so it ought to load very quickly.

[Image removed by me]

I would make it even smaller if it weren't for the fact that it's rather dark.

Not knowing what editing software you use, it's hard to be more specific, but I'll help if I can.

Gwyn

Not all o0f us have the computer skills of The Dragon
If u cant do it let the site do it (I presume the revamp was intended for this purpose)

[quote name='Dragon' date='May 7 2007, 09:49 PM' post='682081']


"This one of Bury St Edmunds barracks (mine, picked at random) is 500 pixels by 392 pixels, resolution 72, optimised to compression value of 25, so it ought to load very quickly."


As I said not all of us are computer literate
Please could you put the above sentence into terms I can understand.

Roger

I'm entirely happy for you to email them to me, if they're big could you send them one per email please.

Thanks again

Graeme

Please see Chris's announcement here.

I will try and find time to explain later, but your graphics editing software should have a Help section.

Gwyn

When I first joined the forum I dropped an almighty clanger when refering to what is now known as" sad."
Fortunately "Grenadier" PMed me to tell me of my mistake which I was quickly able to edit out.
As a concequence I read THE RULES very carefully so as not to commit similar indiscretions.
I also read the HELP section on downloading attachements which forbad the use of 100k+ whatever that is.

Myself and my 2 sons then spent several hours trying to download a picture which we finally managed to do.
Cometh the revamp>
What joy! The first post I read has a picture with a black bar across the top"Reduced X% of original size Click to view full image"
What joy! The 100k+ Whatever has been recinded I presumed as by a simple mathamatical calculation I could determine the original was more than 100k and this presumption was endorsed by the "machine" allowing me to post my pictures without altering them instead of rejecting them.
Thank you for correcting me by pointing out Chris s recent announcement which I seem to have overlooked.
[Edited by Terry Denham (Moderator). All members are subject to the same rules and no member has breached any Forum rule in this thread. Politeness is required at all times.].

Now then!

The Forum has technical limits on imagery for very good reasons.

Some of you can do the magic; some of us can mess with pictures in a rudimentary way, and some of you can't do much more than point yer Box Brownie and take a fuzzy snap.

Not to worry. All images are gratefully received, and many will get used in the drill hall project.

I know everyone likes to see stuff here in the thread, but for a number of reasons we can't always get there. But behind the scenes there's a massive amount of work going on, inputting all this lovely info into drillhalls.org.

Because of the amount of stuff you lovely people provide, both on- and off-Forum, the uploading of counties takes a while, although the amount of info already there is huge. Pop along and see.

All the website stuff has been done by Gwyn; she is the power behind the project, I'm just the bloke wot came up with the idea. Her efforts in turning my notes into a cyber-resource have been monumental. And that includes formatting all the text and images, beyond all the research she's done.

So, a big thankyou to Gwyn for turning a hobby into drillhalls.org, a big thankyou to you all for five years of input and interest, and if you can't find your local drill hall here on the Forum,it's either on, or soon-to-be-on, our website.

I've just received some images from Roger of Batley, Dewsbury and Morley drill halls which I'll endeavour to share with you on the Forum soon as Yorkshire on drillhalls.org is a few weeks away yet.

So whether you post 'em here or mail 'em, we love 'em.

Thanks, all

Graeme

The forum software isn’t really resizing pictures anyway. The number of bytes remains exactly the same. Put simply, when an oversized image is posted, something in the coding or style sheet triggers a message to the client computer to reduce the number of pixels – which takes away a lot of the minute detail in the picture so that its dimensions (cm x cm) are smaller, so it doesn’t overflow the layout of the forum.

The computer still has to download a massive file, which remains a massive file before and after this operation happens. Some images on this entire thread are nearly a megabyte.

A comparison would be me saying that I’ve got a lovely sporty car, my 1987 XR2, but I don’t know how the controls work, so I’ll let it go as fast as the engine wants to and slow it down with the handbrake. Chris is asking us to take control ourselves early on in the process of loading images, to edit the size of pictures to under 100 kb before we start to upload them, so that the images we post are small enough not to trigger the pixel reduction mechanism which still leaves vast files on his server.

Sorry, but I'm not going to provide an image reduction guide here. There is a section for asking how to operate the forum. This thread is about drill halls.

Gwyn

Thank you, Graeme, though you're being modest about the amount of work and persistence you've invested in collecting the data to start with. Five years reading Kelly on dial-up would do most people's heads and eyes in, certainly mine. The quality of information is such that it demanded to be shared.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Yorkshire pictures, having read the background about the buildings last summer.

Gwyn

Click to view attachment

Hi Graeme,

Firstly thanks for allowing the privelidge of helping you and eventually getting the images to you(after tearing my hair out), my cousin as hopefully done the trick for me and so I'm going to attempt one last time to do this way.

Cheers Roger.

Lovely article and such a shame about the building.

Do you have a date for the piece, please and where it was published?

Thanks for sharing.

Gwyn

Hi there Gwyn,

Found it in The Local History Section Batley Library in a 4 page paper on the Fire museum, I used to live only 600/700 yds from it and remember the TA parading in and out of the building, the approx time of closure for the drill hall was 1973/74, but I will find out from the Local Batley News for you.

After all the trouble I have had trying to get the images to yourselves my cousin resized them all for me and I just put this one on for tester.

I e-mailed them all to Graeme last night, but if you want to see the rest I will have another go at it.

Cheers Roger.

Hello Roger

Was the drill hall at Batley just opposite Bank Foot Place/Street?, and do you know which unit paraded there around 1900?

Thanks

Andy

Hi there Andy,

You are about right there, and if memory serves me well next door to it was the National Spiritualist Church set back from the road in an old house.

Also if my memory isn't slipping I seem to remember them as H coy, 4th Battalion KOYLI(Teretorials) excuse the spelling getting tired now.

Cheers Roger.

Hi again Andy,

Told you I was tired, miss read the date, I dont know about the early 1900's.

Cheers Roger.

Many thanks for that Roger.

My GGrandad (see signature) was born at Bankfoot Place and I mused whether the close proximity of the drill hall encouraged him to join the Militia around 1900.

Thanks again

Andy

Hi Andy

My records show that in more modern times (1914) the unit was 'G' Company 4th Battalion King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

Regards

Graeme

Hi there Andy,

Just been having a look at an old map of Batley and the Drill Hall was there in 1895 and in the 1891 Census there's a Colour Sergent, his wife and daughter in residence, at the moment thats the closest I have come to what you where asking.

I will try to dig some more out for you.

For 20 years I lived within about 600/700 yds of the Drill Hall but of course never took much notice of what was on the Boards outside as to who(Regiment) was inside, apart from the KOYLI as they used to go to the Church Steps pub after Rememberance Sunday Parade.

Cheers Roger.

Thanks very much Roger and Graeme

I have come across a picture of (part of) the Shellons Street DH in Folkestone. It was in use by the 8th (Cinque Ports) Battalion of the Home Guard in WW2. Email to follow in due course.
Charles

Looking forward to seeing it, Charles. Thank you.

We still have some of your Kent material to load. It's not been forgotten, but I was away ...... in Kent. I have five more to add to the website. (Monckton [Maidstone], Ramsgate, Birchington, Lydd and Tenterden.)

Gwyn

I went into the Folkestone Local Studies library today to look for OS maps of Folkestone.

1) No DH marked in Shellons St on maps of the late 1880s and 1907. The only possible thing on those maps was a Masonic Hall in an alleyway just off Shellons St. It will take a bit more digging to find out what has been going on here. Change of use for the Masonic Hall? New DH built post 1908?
2) However, both maps show the DH on 133 Dover Rd. I checked out the site and it has been demolished with a block of modern flats standing on the site today.
3) Also found another aerial photo of Sandgate castle.

Photos of the above to come in due course after my next visit.

Gwyn, I look forward to seeing what you have on Lydd, I was planning to check that out next time I am down on the Marsh. Anything on these that I can help follow up on?

Thank you, Charles. We're very grateful.

Shellons Street is mentioned in Kelly, 1913 as a Drill Hall, so possibly your theory about post-1908 is correct. I've found a few instances where drill halls are not specifically marked on the maps (and some where I've found drill halls in places that aren't mentioned in the directories), so while they're extremely useful, they aren't the only proof of a drill hall's existence (or non-existence).

Lydd is complicated. I'm sending you an email.

I've revisited old-maps.co.uk and found that they've been very much developed recently, with a wider range of historical maps online. There are maps to 1938 and later, plus a decent gazetteer; and the image enlargement is much better, if painful at times. I shall be using the site to follow up information or locations.

Gwyn

Bedale Drill Hall for sale

See it here

Select North Yorkshire from the Region menu and commercial from property type.

I wonder what will happen to it

Roger

Thank you, Roger.

I believe that at one stage (2004) there was a planning application for a gymnasium, though I don't know what happened to that. It would be great if you could keep an eye on what happens.

I see you're in the region. Would it be convenient for you to take a photo or two, sometime, please? We'd be very grateful, as we don't seem to have a picture for Bedale DH on the database (unless I've missed it).

Gwyn

There is a building next to Pevensey and Westham railway station in East Sussex with Drill Hall written on it. I don't know anything about it at all but if you like I can shoot down there and take a couple of photos for you.

Cheers
Mark

Funnily enough we were 'talking' about Pevensey yesterday. Graeme knows more about that one than I do.

Yes, please! In addition, close ups of any plaques or stone work (eg the phrase 'drill hall' that you mention), or any individual details would be especially interesting.

Thank you!

Gwyn

Gwyn,
I don't remember anything about a gym but I will try and let you know what happens.
It's no problem to take some photo's in fact I've seen some on the web. I'll get back to you if I find them again.

Roger

Here we are second row from the bottom.
Here

let me know if you want aditional photo's Gwyn and I'll go and take some.

Roger

We prefer to have independent photos if we can because then there are no problems of copyright. So if you would be able to take a picture or two sometime, that would be best of all. We really would appreciate it.

Looking at that page of photos, I see the DH in various photos. It seems a solid little place and well integrated in the street scene. I hope a use is found for it. I'm also curious about what Darwins was.

The information about the DH was acquired in 2004. It was a planning aplication: "Location: The Drill Hall, 4 Bridge Street, Bedale, North Yorkshire, DL8 2AD ... Date Registered: 12 May 2004. Proposal: Alterations and change of use from retail to a gymnasium."

You can view it here.

Clicking on Property details and then on Constraints, it's interesting to see that one constraint is Special planning policies apply here to ensure the character of the Conservation Area is maintained or enhanced. It also had prior PP for use as offices.

You can read even more by clicking on Associated Documents > View associated documents > selecting the Decision notice then allowing pop-ups. I'll try and link to that here.* It seems they care what it looks like and how it fits in with the Conservation Area.

Many thanks for your help and interest, Roger.

Gwyn

* The link doesn't work unless you allow pop-ups.

Went to Pevensey today and would you believe it? Scaffolding went up yesterday to repair the roof.....

I'll try to get some better ones when the scaffold comes down.

Here it is as of today.

It was this that gave me the clue that it might have been a drill hall......

This isn't that easy to read in the photo. I think the inscription at the top was a number. It looks to me like a lower case th. so 6th, 5th, 999th?

The second line seems to end with RY Surrey perhaps? Or it could be saddlery.


The first word of the bottom row seems to have 'lion' in it. Battalion perhaps?

In any case I'd be interested to know.

If you want more photos or the original of these (They're about 4mb each so way over the size limit to post) PM me and let me know your email address and I'll shoot the over.

As soon as the scaffold comes down I'll have a hunt round and takes some more. I'll also try to pop back in the week and see if I can have a nose around inside.


Cheers
Mark


.

Gwyn, I'll get some photo's taken sometime in the next week. That's interesting about the planning aplication.
I'm sure Darwins saleroom was once a chapel, Ill find out and let you know.

Roger

Excellent photos, Mark.

The database suggests a drill station of the 6th Sussex Battery of the 2nd Home Counties Brigade RFA.

That makes sense of the inscription

Thanks

Graeme

Here are the photo's of Bedale Drill Hall, taken this morning. Gwyn, Darwins used to be a Baptist Chapel erected in 1878.

Roger .