Many of us have posted on the Forum regarding our Favourite WW1 Books...here is a question for Forum Members,in your opinion which is the most boring/disliked Book that you have read concerning WW1...??????

We have been through this one several times but it's easily John Mosier an American who is not an historian and the Myth of the Great War in which he explains 1st Marne was a Greman victory as were Vredun and others and all credit for victory goes to the US.

Whereas not as bad as THe Pity of War, Gregor Dallas' book 1918 is fighting for last place in my library. Cultural ignorance, reference his own books, spelling and editing errors all come to mind before his unsupported arguments and lack of offering anything new.

Andy

I've got a bit of a downer on Gary Sheffield, and as something of a novice to the study of the First World War, I found Sheffield's work plodding, and not what it said on the packaging. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and moved on to 'The Somme' after this was recommended by a mate who is a lecturer, but I was again disappointed by the lack of insight he offered, and his poor attempt at a revisionist approach--which, of course, is open to multiple interpretations--and I said I would never consider anything again. However, I'm hoping to buy 'Facing Armageddon', and I understand his work is featured here, so what do I do, I just can't ignore him. Third time lucky, I suppose--but I doubt it

Cheers,
Dave

My vote also goes to The Myth of the Great War. I bought it in Denver and snorted and hurumphed throughout reading it. I finished it, just to say that I did....but totally disagreed with all of it.

Most disliked?

Mosier's book is streets ahead of anything else.

John

Surprised Winter's Haig: A Reassessment hasnt been mentioned.

For me, I was unimpressed by Niellands Great War Generals but perhaps I should give it another go, or his Attrition. Struggled with Corrigan's writing in Sepoy in the Trenches and unlikely to try anything else by him in the near future.

1918 The Year of Victories By Martin Marix Evans. Bought it for a couple of quid in a bargain book store...................Should have kept my money in my pocket.

Hi Dave,

Sorry can't agree, thought it was a pretty good effort, and the Somme is my real area of interest !!

My vote goes to The Donkeys by Alan Clark. I've never read a book by a so called Historian that was so full of holes.


Cheers

Tim.

Theres a Devil in the drum got rave reviews but it left me bored to tears I ended up giving it away. Deaths men on the other hand I read it over and over and over....

Sorry Dave, I rather like Gary Sheffield's work I thought that Forgotten Victory was excellent (although The Somme was hardly ground breakingly brilliant, its ok).

Sorry Jonathan, I have to admit that I like Niellands The Great War Generals because it is a fairly good reference work on the British effort on the Western Front (this Division was doing this on this day sort of thing). Although the arguments are not so clear and it lacked a great deal.

My most disliked, probably has to be British Butchers and Bunglers by Laffin.
Jon

Hello Tim,
Keine problem, but the main problem I have with his work is that it is pedestrian and dull, although Sheffield makes great use of the maps and plans, and goes to some length to explain their meaning. I cant help feeling though that his publishers should have left the illustrations in black and white--it would have give the kids something to colour in.

Cheers,
Dave

"Tommy"...I found it disjointed and really hard work.

Pals

Interesting, so far this thread has already mentioned one of my favourites and also one of my most hated reads.

Cold non-summer months leave me frozen, but, people from South Yorks appeal greatly.

Rgds

Andy

Hi Dave,

Ooooooh you can be so harsh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From my point of view, it breaks the battle up really well, half way between a general overview for the casual observer and someone with a more in depth interest !!

It maybe me, but I found his approach really useful !!!!!!

But as is always said it depends on your point of view and I can imagine it's not everyone's cup of tea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cheers

Tim.

The Regeneration Series By pat Barker,never read so much Old Tosh in all my Life.I just cannot read any Fiction about The Great War.

A good tactic there Andy,
I had to re-read the thread to encrypt your likes and dislikes, and would it be 'Tommy' by Richard Holmes, or Winter's 'Haig', in that order.

Tim, I didn't get where I am today--which is precisely nowhere--without been harsh

Cheers,
Dave

I'd agree that some cited here aren't the best (Winter, Laffin, Neillands eg), but I wouldn't rate them as boring or dislike-able.

Heresy I know, but I think Strachan takes the "boring" title - but only for about a third of "To Arms". His analysis of the economic factors was simply impenetrable to me. The rest is excellent.

Disliked? Mosier by a long, long way. It has so many facets, its hard to choose what is the most irritating aspect. I think his smugness takes the biscuit "I know so much better than these fools. And you fools as well". Don't care that he's not an historian. Do care that he's an ass.

But an honourable mention to Richard Townsend Bickers "The First Air War". The most bigotted and contemptible viewpoint I've ever had the misfortune to read. WE Johns is less biased.

Anything written from the position of Generals and Politicians, as were too many early books.

Gunner Bailey

I'd probably agree with Jonathan on Neillands' "Great War Generals" - one of the few books I gave up on half way through. I found other of his books boring and turgid, too.

Max Arthur's "Forgotten Voices of the Great War" is a pet hate of mine - a rotten cut and paste job; no context, no explanation, several obvious mistakes in description of the veterans' units, etc - a really poor book.

Oh, and Warner's "Battle of Loos": much-discussed on this Forum, it is everything a history shouldn't be - inaccurate!

Dave

One right, one wrong and er, wrong order. BTW anything by Winter leaves me stone cold.

Rgds

Andy

In Total and utter agreement with you on this one.

Steve - my turn to agree with you! You are right about the make up of this book but it provides an excellent way to identify most of the participants in the BBC's The Great War!

Duckman

I'm with you there, mate - it's dreadful!

Another load of rubbish has to be Stanley Weintraub's Silent Night: the Story of the World War I Christmas Truce. It's full of the author's thoughts on what might have happened, and a bit sketchy on what did happen.

Cheers

Gareth

Steven,

Please dont go agreeing with Jon, he'll start to get the impression he's right!

I feel I have to stick up for Neillands and his 'Generals' book, whilst not saying its a great book, and does go over the top too much in his revisionist trait, I do feel it is worth a blod all the way through.

I also think that all should read 'Donkeys' just so you can swing the other way, as they say. Never read a book onb the Great War that I did not feel was worth it, even if it made me realsie there are truely some twits out there.

That said having read some threads on books, I have not picked up some due to that so may have missed out, what a shame!

Steven I have to say that 'Loos' by Warner is worth the price for the personal accounts alone and whilst I realsie that some of his narrative is in accurate, as a first small intro to Loos I found it a good bouncing off point to get me going along the right lines, though probably know I would recommend the Battleground books as a starting point.

And whilst I am here defending all, some of the Generals accounts are good, whilst still reflecting the mood of that person and trying to keep/restore his reputation. Sir Willaim Marshall's book 'Memories of four Fronts' is a good honest read in my opinion.

regards
Arm

Oh had a good look at Corrigians book on loos and was not impressed by the size apparent content (loaned from library) and tried first few pages and just knew it was not going to be good.

So this would perhaps be the most let down by a book category for me. So much wiating and self induced hype and then that pathetic morsal!

regards
Arm

Not all Winter is bad. His earlier books when he stuck to facts rather than opinions ('Death's Men' and 'The First of the Few') are okay. He's not the only Winter either -- I have 'The Experience of World War I' by J.M. Winter, which is pretty good.

I assume we are steering clear of novels in this thread: otherwise I would nominate 'The Flowers of the Field' by one Sarah Harrison.

cheers Martin B

Lonny,

Are you saying you're in agreement with my previous comments?

Goes cold at the thought then realises that you spoke of the 'Sepoys' book and not Loos!

I have the sepoys book but have yet to read it, though I have it on good authority that it has much to commend it, if that its the only book to cover this topic.

So stop giving me a scare!

Arm

Oh and if you are going to be using one of my many nicknames please spell it correctly...Its Lonnie, though I prefer Tubby, it has a more cuddly friendly sound to it, whilst obviously not reflecting my size in any way

Arm

Not all Winter is bad. His earlier books when he stuck to facts rather than opinions ('Death's Men' and 'The First of the Few') are okay. He's not the only Winter either -- I have 'The Experience of World War I' by J.M. Winter, which is pretty good.

I enjoyed Pat Barker: there is a lot worse out there -- try 'The Flowers of the Field' by one Sarah Harrison.

cheers Martin B

Hi Martin

Agreed - I was only refering to Denis. However I will say that probably his books are only slightly less boring than his teaching.

Rgds

Andy

Then stay out of Waterstone's in the run up to Christmas, Steven... There's a new super duper, IWM sanctioned 'illustrated edition'. "New Money" "Old Rope" "Make a superifical book even less valuable". How many more can he wring out of this? "More Still Yet Forgotten Voices of the Great War Almost That Didn't Make The Cut of The Last Three Volumes"

As to mine:

Mosier by a New York Mile. I actually ENJOYED "Haig's Command" for the very brashness of its argument, whether or not you think he has any sustainable argument. Asked to comment on Denis Winter, Corelli Barnett once said "I think they call it 'care in the community' nowadays." A shame, as Death's Men is a great read.

I don't have a lot of time for Farrar-Hockley's WW1 books to be true, they don't engage me.

I`m with you on that, PBI. Though I happily enjoy reading Cornwell, O`Brien etc. I would make an honourable WW1 exception for Frederick Manning. It seems to make all the difference that the author actually fought. It comes through on the first page. Phil B

A "worthy" runner-up to the Mosier book, IMO. Although still miles behind. These are the only two Great War books which have found their way to the charity shop.

Most boring? Difficult to think of anything to beat Henshaw's "The Sky their Battlefield". Boring as hell. But so much infomation, that you gotta have it on the shelf.

John

In praise of Manning, this is from p205, just prior to the attack on Serre, November 1916:

"They had nothing; not even their own bodies, which had become mere implements of warfare. They turned from the wreckage and misery of life to an empty heaven, and from an empty heaven to the silence of their own hearts. They had been brought to the last extremity of hope, and yet they put their hands on each other’s shoulders and said with a passionate conviction that it would be all right, though they had faith in nothing, but in themselves and in each other."

I agree that Corrigan's Sepoys is quite good. Laffin and Clark would just be a bad joke except that's all a fair amount of people know.
Death's Men is quite good but Winter on Haig is a polemic of the worst kind, he even tries to make a case the man was homosexual without a shred of evidence and considering that was a crime that's real bad.

Mosier's book "The Myth of the Great War" is a must for any GW buff. Its critism and clean up with many myths is not liked by everybody. But it belongs in every GW library due to its different and diverse point of views. I can say: I won't miss it! For some pals its extremely painful to accept some corrections on their beloved myths....(it would be too simple to quote the Marne drama; he does not say it was a German win win; in another, related thread I quoted some eye opening passages from the excellent book )

Blimey - that was SO bad, I'd wiped it from my memory banks Dreadful.

And one for Arm - I can'r plod through Neillands' books. I'm getting on, and if a book doesn't make me twant to read it, I'm not going to bother!

Strange how authors can be so erratic. I have his 'A Stillness Heard Round the World -- The End of the Great War', and though admittedly it's a long time since I read it I have a favourable recollection. Certainly seems well researched, from a quick look at the source notes.

cheers Martin B

Each time this comes up Egbert defends Mosier and he's bowling alone! It's garbage by a man with little knowledge of the conflict. If you have to read it for God's sake don't buy it and put money in his pocket.

The Balloon Buster, by Norman Shannon Hall. A biography of Frank Luke, supposedly. Hagiography more like.

Pure unadulterated hero worship. Littered with exclamation marks.

Have just partly read a book about Verdun by some author whose name I have forgotton (the book went to the charity shop). It hardly seemed to mention the ebb and flow of the battle, but waffled on at some length about heaven knows what else.
Most offputting book title has to be John Laffin's "British Butchers and Bunglers" Never bothered to look inside as I doubted the contents would be well balanced. I would imagine that he completely overlooked that the successive waves of Australians sacrificed at The Nek at Gallipoli were sent forth by Australian commanders, not British.

I'm thinking of defecting to the German lines . If any book is this bad, then it's got to be worth a look. I'll try the library first, then the bargain basement.

Cheers,
Dave

I should have saved my money as well - it is dire.

Any fiction by Pat Barker, Ben Elton or Sebastian Faulks- I just can't stand it.

Faulks tells an incredibly vivid and moving story of the Battle of the Somme and Messines Ridge at Ypres in the following year. During his time in the trenches, we learn of Wraysford's mental attitude to the war and the guarded comradeship he feels for his friend Captain Michael Weir and the rest of his men. His story is paralleled with that of Jack Firebrace, a former miner, employed in the British trenches to listen for the enemy and plant mines under the German trenches. The novel ends with Wraysford and Firebrace being trapped underground as the war ends and being rescued by Levi, a Jewish German soldier.

Saw a Documentary about Luke on the History Channel last Week,if he had served in the RFC he would have been court martialed for disobaying orders,insubordination.

I refuse to read Mosier on principle alone as I know that I will dislike it on every level. I'm also afraid that I didn't much like the following:

1. "Tommy" : too plodding and filled with massive quotes.

2. "The Missing of the Somme" : simply did not live up to expectations.

3. "Forgotten Voices of the Great War" : furious that I too could have made a wedge of money by listening to hours of interviews at the IWM and then cutting and pasting them into a book! I was also annoyed by Mr Arthur lapping up the praise for his book at a literature festival a few years ago, and then refusing to answer, in fact dismssing, my friend's polite question on one of the downsides to the book. It also annoys me that the book has now spawned a sea of imitations.

Just thought that I'd share that!

I refuse to read Mosier on principle alone as I know that I will dislike it on every level. I'm also afraid that I didn't much like the following:

1. "Tommy" : too plodding and filled with massive quotes.

2. "The Missing of the Somme" : simply did not live up to expectations.

3. "Forgotten Voices of the Great War" : furious that I too could have made a wedge of money by listening to hours of interviews at the IWM and then cutting and pasting them into a book! I was also annoyed by Mr Arthur lapping up the praise for his book at a literature festival a few years ago, and then refusing to answer, in fact dismssing, my friend's polite question on one of the downsides to the book. It also annoys me that the book has now spawned a sea of imitations.

Just thought that I'd share that!

Broomers

Only bought 1 Neillands - Old Contempibles, and couldn't put it down. Having said that - once finished - it left me a bit flat and wishing that he had included more detail.

Rgds

Andy