Hello,


I am looking for more info concerning Flight Lieutenatn David Keith-Johnston, RNAS, who died on 10/8/1915.

Regards,

Cnock

Cnock

Flt Lt David Keith-Johnston of No 2 Sqn, RNAS, from Bushey Heath, Hertfordshire, was killed while flying a Farman on the Western Front on 10 August 1915. He was aged 20.

It was a bad time for the Keith-Johnston family, as his younger brother, Flt Sub Lt Macfie Keith-Johnston, of Eastchurch Naval Air Station, was killed while flying Short S38 No 65 on 12 September. He was aged 17.

I hope that this helps.

Gareth

Gaeth,

Thank You for the info!

Does anyone knows more about the circumstances of his death, and the unit?

Regards,

Cnock

Eddy,

the unit is really problematical - most references seem to agree on 2 Squadron, however, there were several No.2 Squadrons existing under different Wings. The problem is made worse by there not being a 2 Squadron in existance at the time of Keith-Johnston's death!

I am at work so will have a look later.


Mike

Flying Units of the RAF says 202 Sqn RAF was originally formed 17 Oct 1914 at Eastchurch as 2 (Naval) Squadron RNAS.
During June 1915 was redesignated as 2 Wing RNAS and moved to France on 2 August to be withdrawn 10 days later to Dover to prepare for service in Aegean.
2 (Naval) Sqn RNAS reformed on 5 Nov 1915 at St Pol from B Flight of 1 Wing RNAS.
From this it seems he was technically with 2 Wing RNAS at the time of his death.
Regards
John

John and Mike,

Thanks for the info!

Regards,

Cnock

Eddy,

that information is incorrect . B Flight 1 Wing did not become No.2 Squadron until November 1916.

If he was with 2 Wing on the 10th August 1915 he should have been at Eastchurch in Kent preparing to leave for Mudros , not flying on the Western Front.


The Commonwealth War Graves Commission certificate says:

In Memory of
Flight Lieutenant DAVID KEITH-JOHNSTON

Royal Naval Air Service
who died age 20
on 10 August 1915
Son of Robert and Jessy Keith-Johnston, of Red May, Elms Lane, Sudbury, Middx. Born in London.
Remembered with honour
RAMSCAPPELLE ROAD MILITARY CEMETERY


Ah, I have it. He was shot down off Ostende, though there are no details of what he was flying (which is unusual). Not mentioned at all in the Sky Their Battlefield, also very odd! My best guess is that he had transferred to 1 Wing. More research needed!


Mike

If my info is incorrect then I can only apologise. I have re-checked my source document (Flying Units of the RAF by Alan Lake) and my quote is as per the book.
From the dates given in the same book it is conceivable he would have been in France on the 10 Aug as the unit didn't return to Dover until "some ten days later" ie 10 days after their arrival on 2 Aug.
Obvioulsly even published info can be wrong.
Regards
John

Sturtivant & Page "RN Aircraft Serials and Units" lists him under "Unidentified RNAS Casualties" as "10/8/15 - Johnston, F/L, D.K. C flt 2 Sqn/Shot down off Ostende." They also show C Flt of 2 Sqn as based at Eastchurch by week ending 10/5/15.

John S,


Lake's book is wrong (and not for the first time), it looks like a simple typo to me, he got it wrong by exactly a year.

You (and he) are referring to No.1 Wing - No.2 Squadron (which was a PR and artillery spotting squadron) and basically was operational from the beginning of 1917 until it became 202 Squadron RAF on 1/4/18.


Keith-Johnston was a member of the second No.2 Squadron that became No.2 Wing at Eastchurch on 21st June 1915. (For completeness, the first No.2 Squadron was formed on 10th September 1914 and disbanded a month later on 10th October 1914). I won't confuse you with the No.2 Squadron that came under No.4 Wing)

If he was still with No.2 Wing on the 10th August 1915, it must be remembered that the Wing embarked for the Dardanelles on the 15th August. The logistics of dismantling and crating all the Wing's aircraft and packing their Stores (for an extended stay), and loading such items on board ship, getting all the Officers and Men and their personal kit on board strikes me as an undertaking that cannot be achieved in 5 days.

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies,

Regards,

Cnock

Mike W
Thanks for clarifying this (I think!).
Perhaps I had better consign Lake to the deep blue sea.
I must confess I have little knowledge of the RNAS (more RFC background myself). Any good books you can reccomend?
Regards
John

He went to Felsted School, a public school in Essex. In the School Chapel mounted in the wall is part of his tombstone made by the Germans who found him. Its inscription reads "High. Sub. Lieutnant, D. Keith. Johnston, Ehre dem Tapferen". I have a photograph of it which I'll post later.

Hello Rob,

that would be interesting, thanks anyway for the info

Cnock

These are original documents at Kew:
ADM 273/4 Page 55: David Keith Johnston. RNAS Officers Service
ADM 273/28 Page 55: David Keith Johnston. RNAS Officers Service

Mike and Eddy,

Agreed. He should be in TSTB.
The RNAS is fiendishly hard to follow at this time, as we all know. But the Germans are burying him so he is out over Ostende in a HF F27 (I suspect) and is shot down. This seems like fact to me. His unit is the problem. 2 Wing is still at Dover technically until mid August. They reach and begin their stay at Imbros at the end of the month. But there remains the puzzle of C Flt 2Sqn RNAS at Eastchurch, to which in "RNAS Serials and Units" Johnson apparently belongs when he is is lost in August. But also according to the latter book this unit winds down to prepare for the Dardanelles from June '15(i.e. later to regenerate as 2Wg RNAS in the Dardanelles). Both can't be true. Why do you think he may have transferred to 1 Wing. I'm not all that sure this sort of movement went on (might be wrong).

Taking all the facts before us these seem to say to me that maybe C Flt 2Sqn was operating up until quite soon before their formal departure from the WF/UK. The a'c they pick up and use from the end of August out in the Dardanelles may have been another lot of machines altogether. I've spent a few days recently looking at two huge and amazing albums by the 2Wg photographer Atkins who arrived on Imbros on Day 1 and left when the unit left for Mitylene in 1917. Arriving on Imbros in those photos has all the appearances of "a clean start" to me. Maybe we shouldn't think of these units as the identically same bunch of men and machines moving around continents.

I suspect Keith-Johnston was in a HF-27 of C Flt 2Sqn RNAS, operating out of Eastchurch, when he was lost.

Maybe..

Trevor

I think I've fallen into my own trap here - seeing HF F27s galore on Imbros I made the assumption Keith-Johnson would be in one off Ostende. Looking up a few references I don't think they had many, if any, in Europe in 1915. At this time their aircraft were mostly AVRO 504Bs, BE2cs, BLERIOT XIs, SOPWITH TABLOIDs, BRISTOL SCOUT Cs and NIEUPORT 10s. There was MFSH 8110 with 2Wg Eastchurch but this was still around in 1916.

It's a strange thing, though. As I've been writing this the image of an apparent RNAS Farman on a beach in German hands which another researcher sent me several years ago, but which didn't tick any boxes at all at the time, has come to mind. But where on earth is it on my computer?? This might be it. I seem to recall it was in tact, though.

Trevor

RNAS unit designations are problematic to say the least. It is not helped by so much of the RNAS documentation having been weeded, particularly their card index. I have found the following that shows thgat the Wing were still submitting reports from Dunkirk around this time:
AIR 1/149/15/96 2 Aeroplane Wing, R.N.A.S. Dunkerque - reports of operations. 1915 Aug.2-Aug.8

Hi Trevor,


I presume You are not referring to the RNAS H Farman nr.3624 that crashed on 6/8/1915 on the beach near Middelkerke?
I once posted a topic about this plane on this Forum. but cannot find it back.

Cheers,

Eddy

Eddy,

It is indeed. Well done. Did you get to the bottom of that?

Regards,

Trevor

Trevor,

No, I never got to the bottom of that, ended up with Dollingsworth and Dalzell 1 Wing RNAS

Cnock