This is one that has puzzled me for years. Can anyone explain the next of kin relationship for this man? (he was know locally as John McGuffog although 'Johnstone' is not an alias).

Name: JOHNSTONE, WILLIAM JOHN
Initials: W J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Serjeant
Regiment/Service: 4th Dragoon Guards (Royal Irish)
Age: 27
Date of Death: 28/10/1914
Service No: 1081
Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. J. McGuffog, Broad Oak, Bridge End, Waberwhaite, Cumberland; husband of Florence Hilda Johnstone (formerly McGuffog), of 70, Fenwick St., Woolwich Common, Woolwich, London.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 - 5.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Andy.

Just a guess - William's mother, Mrs Johnstone, was widdowed and remarried a Mr McGuffog. This means that the CWGC info is sloppy but they relied on what was supplied by the family. If my scenario is correct, Mr McGuffog may have come to know William as a small child and may have felt and acted as though he was his actual son. The 'Florence Hilda Johnstone (formerly McGuffog)' adds to the confusion. First cousins can marry.

Does the 1901 census help?

Ian

Surname JOHNSTONE
Firstname William
Service Number 1081
Date Death 28/10/1914
Decoration
Place of birth Kirkguneon Kirkcudbright
Other 4th Dragoon Guards (Royal Irish).
SNWM roll COMMANDS AND STAFF; CAVALRY (EXCLUDING GREYS AND SCOTTISH YEOMANRY)
Rank Sgt
Theatre of death F.& F.

Aye
Malcolm

Hi Andy,

Have you found him on the census atall?

where was he born? and do you know hes mothers first name?

I could do a few searches on ancestry and see what i can find out for you.

genni

Mrs J McGuffog may have been a Johnstone widow and remarried, William being the product of her first marraige. The new groom may have had a daughter or neice Florence. The only way to get to the botom of it is to purchase the requisite birth, marraige and death certs. The GRO marraige index after 1912 does give the spouses name so that might help. The 1901 census probably won't tell you anything, you will need to see the 1911 to get anywhere close, for that you will have to wait.
The next of kin is the wife.

Owen Hales

I would suggest that you check the death notices and/or obituaries in the papers as these often turn up useful pieces of information.

Bright Blessings
Sandra

Andy - Any chance he simply changed his name............Another scenario has crossed my mind..............Perhaps he was born out of wedlock & Johnstone was his actual name. The same thing happened with my Great Uncle. When born my Great Grandparents weren't married. As such his registered surname was Kenney. However he was always known as Ingram which was my Great Grandfathers name. When my Great Uncle joined up he used the name he was born with rather than the one he was always known as (including his 1901 census entry)

Just to eliminate one thing - the War Memorial in Kirkguneon (now Kirkgunzeon) has no entries for Johnstone or McGuffog

Well, I have done a bit of digging and the current theory is that Mr. McGuffog and family had moved up to Cumberland from near Lancaster - along with at least another brother and his family - possibly to work as gardeners at Muncaster Castle. It was Mrs McGuffog's second marriage and she already had a son from it - William John Johnstone - who went by the name John McGuffog locally). I think he married one of his step-cousins.

It all seems to fit although it is supposition based on trying to map out their family tree.

Thanks for all suggestions - this one has puzzled me for years.

Andy.

p.s. If T. Denham happens to read this then Waberwhaite needs amending to read Waberthwaite

I hope the previous posters are still watching this thread.
I made the connection to here thanks to a poster on the Royal Dragoons Forum.
I've been researching the names on the Dalbeattie (Dumfries and Galloway) War Memorial and one of the names is SGT.MAJ. JOHN MCGUFFOG, IRISH BR.GDS.
I found two newspaper reports giving the details the of the man and of his death on the 28 October 1914, buried near Neuve Chappelle, age 27, leaving a widow and infant child at Woolwich. He was reported to have been promoted to Sergeant in the 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards in August 1914 and later to CSM and fencing instructor.
The information was sent from his widow to his aunt, Margaret Richardson (ne McGuffog) of Dalbeattie.
Now Margaret had at least 5 younger brothers (1871 census when she was 14) John 12, David 6, James 4, Thomas 2, and Robert 1. In 1901 I know David was in Dalbeattie but could the Mr J McGuffog of Cumberland be John or James?

Kenneth

Hi Kenneth. I got your message via Kate and came looking !!

I will ask Kate to send you my email address so we can correspond direct but I'm looking forward to exchanging information with you. I have never fully established the family relationships but two senior members of the McGuffog family were living at Waberthwaite - I believe, working as gardeners at Muncaster Castle. I don't know where he selected the name Johnstone from but I do know why he chose it - he was a deserter from the HLI at Edinburgh Castle. One thing I have still not completely worked out is whether his new surname was ever officially acknowledged.

Best wishes.

Andy.

I did some digging round. Here is the GRO ref for William and Florence's marriage

William J McG Johnstone and Florence H Simmonds Dec q 1912 Woolwich 1d 2351

Possible child - Sybil W Johnstone - Mother's surname Simmonds - Sep q 1914 Andover 2c 468

The marriage certificate will provide, hopefully!, details of his father. If it is a Scottish marriage entry, it would provide details of both parents!

There is a possible family of William living at Urr, Kirkcudbrightshire in 1901 census. John McGuffog, wife Margret, Agnes, Lizzie, William, Maggie, Marion.

A child's names containing a family surname is common in Scotland.

Christina

Many thanks Christina - have ordered a copy of the marriage cert.
I don't think the William you mention is our man. He is aged 10 in 1901 so would have been only 23/24 in 1914. There is however a John McGuffog age 13 (26/27) in Dalbeattie and he might tie in the various threads of this story.
He might be the John from Dalbeattie who joined the HLI in 1904.
He was living with his father David and English mother Jane at 225 High St. Dalbeattie whilst at 221 was his aunt Maggie Richardson (McGuffog) who is mentioned in the newspaper reports.
Incidentally he does not show up on the search function on the scotlandspeople site, I found him when looking for his aunt. I've asked General Records of Scotland to look at this.
Hopefully the marriage cert will name the groom's father as David and get us one step closer.
Kenneth

John is "indexed" under the name McGuffAg. GRoS will correct.

Andy and Kenneth

I am now confused as my post was in response at Andy's initial query! I gather William Johnstone and John McGuffog are the same person. I will be following this thread with interest!

Christina

At last! A photo of John McGuffog, aka William Johnstone, the man at the centre of the controversy (courtesy of one of Kenneth's friends). Between us, Kenneth and I have just about resolved all of the issues concerning him and I'll post an update in due course, just in case any of you are holding your breath....................

Hi Andy,

I posted the photo on the Scottish War Memorial Project thread. You mention that you are unsure about his place of death and subsequent commemoration:


I have some further information which may offer some answers, especially if the war diary states the squadron in which Lieutenant Frank B.B. Pigeon and om Captain Alexander Gallaher served:

Lt. Pigeon, 4th Dragoon Guards, wrote a letter, dated 30th November, to Sergt.-Major McGuffog's wife:- "I am exceedingly sorry to say that the Sergt.-Major was shot by a bullet in the neck while we were making a dismounted attack on a village held by the Germans, and only lived ten minutes after being shot. He was a great loss to me and I am sure I will never get a better troop sergeant. You will be pleased to hear that he was mentioned three times in despatches for gallantry in the field. Once he rescued Lieut. Sharpe under heavy fire, and another time he brought back Sergt. Smith to safety when he was wounded in the leg and unable to move." Another letter, from Capt. Gallaher, states that John McGuffog was buried close to Neuve Chapelle with a funeral service.

Cheers,

Stuart

Thanks Stuart, I got this info via Ken whom I corresponded with. I hadn't realised you were both "PPCLI" and "Stuartry" (elsewhere) and I sent an email via the Sonsofgalloway website because I'm keen to get a better version of the photo if one is available - but I never got a reply (although that could be my computer system).

Best wishes.

Andy.

Hi Andy,

I know that there was a problem with the Sons of Galloway contact form, but that is now fixed. A hi-res tiff file is now on its way to your email address (supplied by Ken). Yes, 'Stewartry' elsewhere - as in Stewartry of Kirkcudbright, the alternative name for Kirkcudbrightshire.

All the best,

Stuart