Take a good look at this MODERN Aerial photo
It is in the French sector, South East of Mourmelon-le-Grand, on what appears to be an army range.

If you look carefully, you can clearly see extensive trench systems, that are clear enough to trace over.

I have traced them, and the next map I post will be those tracings on an IGN map.

Surely these must be Great War. has anybody been there?
Guy

Here is the location
Guy

Guy - the amount of trench systems in this area that date from the Great War is quite staggering. I recently posted a Google Earth image on the forum of a place not far from here where you could see the 'scars' of the trenches in the soil. I suspect there is every chance these trenches are from the Great War, given the location.

Yes Paul,
I saw the image, but these are not just shadows in cultivated land, they appear to be untouched and clearly visible dug structures, that have never been filled in.

I am assuming, but may be wrong, that these areas on the Plateau de Mourmel,
specifically the Plateau des Perches, are military ranges and inaccessible to the public.

Does anybody know if it is possible to visit the area, possibly by appointment?

Does anybody have a trench map?

(Huh funny coming from me! But hey, they are French.....)
Guy

I have had a look in IGN GeoPortal and it looks as though it might be tank training ground. Heavily wooded in parts on a chalky soil. Not unlike Salisbury Plains. Hard to say if these are trenches but hundreds of tracks all over the place. Some obviously quite old.

Tom - not sure how good your screen resolution is, but you need to look outside the obvious tracks and you will see the trenches.

Towards the north of the military area, there are two parallel ' wiggly ' lines which could be trenches but they seem detached.

You can only visit this area by prior arrangement (which is likely to be difficult, I think). Yes, they are WW1.

Just a few of the many, many remains of more or less pristine trenches left.

Of course, we don't tell the tourists where they are, we let them go on ploughing around the genuine reconstructed trenches around the Somme -with the grass cut.

[quote name='healdav' date='Feb 20 2007, 06:54 PM' post='627402']

Of course, we don't tell the toruists where they are, we let them go on ploughing around the genuine reconstructed trenches around the Somme -with the gras cut.

Well they say ignorance is bliss

One of those small coincidences which brighten the day. I am reading the memoirs of a poilu and he has just been sent to Mourmelon le Grand on a crapouillot course. He mentions meeting Russian soldiers wandering about in the village.

Interesting. I don't know this part of France. Are they battlefield area? If not then they are training trenches but they need not be Great War since training trenches continued in use after 1918 and do still today! The Salisbury Plain example is good as we have numerous trench systems here, including relatively modern examples and large 1914-18 examples.

Martin - this was in the heart of the fighting, especially in 1915, so yes this is a battlefield area, and they are Great War trenches.

If you go to google maps and looks at Salisbury plain (it's in fine detail) you can clearly see the training trenches.

Though you may wonder why this British Military area is in such fine detail. You can see where the FP Demos were held.

Can someone point me towards the trenches on Salisbury Plain via Google Earth? Living very close to it I would be interested to have a look at these - I have never spotted them on Google Earth before.

Thanks

Alan

OK. Go to ‘google maps’ and put in Warminster. In the top right hand corner you have a choice of MAP - SATELLITE – HYBRID, Choose hybrid so you can superimpose the road map onto the satellite image. Centre the training area. Look for some woods shaped rather like a horizontal fish hook. Zoom in on the ridge to the south. Happy hunting.


Dave

Dave,

Thanks - got them! About 1.5 km south of Imber. They are very clear on the aerial photo. I had been looking on the eastern part of the plain, nearer where I live, rather than this side.

Cheers

Alan

No problem, happy to help. For some reason google likes to 'zoom' in on european military areas.

I know the area from the Warminster side. Take a good look around many other things to spot.

The whole area is fantastic. On the eastern side, much of it is completely open to the public most weekends, and you can walk from one side to the other. Much of what there is to see is neolithic.

The western part is less accessible, although Imber can be visited a couple of times each year. Those trenches don't look too far from a roadnear Chitterne, although I suspect they are inaccessible most or all of the time.

Alan

It's not the place to go for a wander uninvited.

All

Thank you Paul for the information.

For those wanting to visit Salisbury Plain can I remind you that it is a working military training area, with areas of live firing and potential death. Sorry but I am wearing my work hat here and a civvie in the wrong place can cause real headaches.

You can access parts of the Area during down time and these are indicated when the red flags are NOT flyinh. You should then stick to footpaths.

However the good news is that some of the trenches are probably accessible by Public Footpath. Beacon Hill and Perham Down in the east of the Plain both have remains mentioned in the English Heritage volume "The Field Archaeology of Salisbury Plain" (McOmish, Field & Brown). If you do intend to visit the local papers carry firing times. Check them and bring a map.

Alternatively if a group from the WFA or similar wanted a tour that could be arranged with us.

And Alan is right the rest of the archaeology is magnificent.

Martin

GWF tour?

Adrian

I don't see why not. I something like a minibus full of you wanted to come we could sort something out with a GW theme, as well as seeing some other groovy things on the way round.

What we could see when might be affected by troop movements but Fridays and weekends tend to be better than midweek.

You only have to ask. I'm not offering to set up a visit but if one of you does so then we will be happy to guide because actually we like to show off what we've got - it looks nicer than the Somme!

Martin

Anyone else think this is a good idea? Ideally someone with the organisational skills I lack...

I'd LOVE to get a guided tour of any manner of bits of Salisbury Plain (Stonehenge Brewery, for starters!).

Adrian

Well that killed that one stone dead, didn't it?

Anyone?

Adrian

One the subject of Salisbury Plain, two of the authors of the previously mentioned 'Field Archaeology of Salisbury Plain', Graham Brown and David Field, have just published their survey of practice trench earthworks at Beacon Hill nr Bulford and at Bulford itself. The article can be found in the 2007 volume (vol. 100) of Wiltshire Studies: the Wiltshire Archaeological and Natural History Society Magazine. The article also includes a gazetteer of trench sites on the Plain.

Hi all,
further to this, you can download the plan that Graham and David made of the Beacon Hill practice trenches from the English Heritage website - this is the same as the one in the Wiltshire Archaeological Magazine.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/...ce_Trenches.pdf

The article in the Wiltshire Magazine is great although there are a couple of errors including the thought that Perham Down trenches are only visible in air photos now. In fact they survive to c1m depth and there are still screw pickets by some of the redouts.

cheers
R

While looking in the area of Sailsbury Plain the village of Codford still shows signs of extensive WW1 activity.
There was a large camp there and the fields north of the main street show some interesting signs.
Cheers

Also, if you go to the following great French site.....

http://www.geoportail.fr/index.php?event=D...f7d2e88aa8ee6ae

.....then type in "Suippes" in the "Aller a une commune" box.......

Just to the North-East of this village is the militray zone of Camp de Suippes, and if you zoom in close enough, you will clearly see many trenches all over this area.

Under the heading "Transparence", move the slider to mix the image between image-only to map-only.

I think this is a restricted military zone now, as after the war, it was deemed too dangerous to let the inhabitants return to the land. In fact, my wife's father did his National Service training in this area, and distinctly remembers the remains from the War.