I've researched a relatively small number of WW1 sailors in my research into local war memorials, but they were all Stokers - the men were all agricultural labourers. I know that lots of stokers were needed on ships then, but were there any other jobs on board for labouring types? Also I wonder why all these men (who had probably never even seen the sea, joined the Navy - most of them during the first 10 years of the 20th C - was there some sort of recruitment drive going on?)

Also what was the difference between a Leading Stoker and Stoker 1st Class.

Many thanks

Mary

The term Stoker is primarily a rank rather than an occupation just as Private is in the army and Gunner in the Artillery. Certainly some Stokers would be stokers but only on coal ships.

Roop

But still I think part of the engineering branch rather than seamen (and therefore more likely to be employed 'dawhn below')

The term stoker covered both the rank and part of the occupation, but there were different grade starting (for adults) with Stoker 2nd class, then 1st class, Leading Stoker (army equivalent corporal), Stoker Petty Officer and the Chief, for the non commissioned ranks. The majority of larger WWI ships were coal powered and required tons of coal to be shoveled.

Mary you might be interested in this thread, especially the excerpts fron the stokers book http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...=leading+stoker Stokers were the ships mechanics and became pregressively more skilled as they rose through the ranks.

the stokers stations were mostly below the waterline, so more likely to be killed if the ship sank.

Mary, have you tried a search for other men from your local area not on the memorial? That would give you a better picture of whether everyone ended up as stokers.

There was a naval arms race in the time you're talking about so the Navy was high profile and that probably served as a recruitment drive.

Dear All,
Many thanks for the replies - I thought the ranks would indicate progression and Leading Stoker would be in charge of a number of men (just like the name implies), nice to know I was on the right track.

How would I find other men from the area who also served in the Navy but survived? I thought you had to know who to find anything in the records?

And thanks for the info about the naval arms race, perhaps just after the end of the Boer War, the Navy seemed like a more interesting option! I'm in awe of these men, who did the hardest of jobs in not very nice conditions - says a lot for the joys of working on the land if stoking below decks on a ship or (worse in my view) a submarine was a better alternative.

Thanks for all your help.
Mary

Mary,

The stokers were the highest paid men in the navy that wore 'Square Rig' (Round Cap), not altogether a bad move being one. Put the place name in on this site and see what comes up for your villages.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...amp;queryType=1

Regards Charles

By WW1 the coal fired warship was doomed. From 1912 onwards the majority of new ships built for the RN were oil fired (a decision made by Churchill prompted by Fisher) ten of the RNs 30/32 battleships used in WWI were entirely oil fired and about another ten were part coal- part oil fired. The ten oil fired ships represented the newest elements of the fleet. The same pattern was being repeated in all classes of warship. As a result the role and function of the stoker was changing, there would be fewer of them for a start - oil fired ships had smaller crews.

Any coal fired vessel would have trimmers in the crew. They moved the coal around( trimmed the ship) and took it to the stokers. The ones who were actually stoking that is.

I also have a grandfather - Sydney Rouse - who joined the Navy when he was 12 years of age in 1904 and he is listed as a Stoker; the training ship was 'Nelson' and then 'Firequeen'.

Sydney also came from an agricultral background (he is listed as a Dairyman) being born in Bawdsey (Norfolk) but he eventually joined the Coastguard at Portsea.

Another query related to President 11. There was one at Staithes (Hull) which Sydney was joined to although by this time he was in the Coastguard; I understand that at that time the Coastguard came under the Navy.

Jon Miles[/font]

"Any coal fired vessel would have trimmers in the crew. They moved the coal around( trimmed the ship) and took it to the stokers. The ones who were actually stoking that is."

Not in the Royal Navy; Stokers supervised sailors and soldiers to do the trimming, a private onboard ship working in the stokehold was paid an extra 1/- a day, 1/6 in the Gulf and Red sea, not bad considering his daily pay was 1/3.

Regards Charles

So there were trimmers in RN crews just not graded as stokers!

So there were trimmers in RN crews just not graded as stokers!,

Not really all Ordinary Seamen had to pass a course of instruction in Stokehold and toolwork before being passed Able Seaman, Stokers fed the fires which was more technical. A percentage of the Millitary Branch was detailed for stokehold work on the ships 'Watch and Quarter Bill'.

Regards Charles

But surely someone on the Watch and Quarter Bill is part of the crew whatever their rank, grade, or whatever?

"But surely someone on the Watch and Quarter Bill is part of the crew whatever their rank, grade, or whatever?"

Yes true, but the men detailed to work in the stokeholds worked under supervision and did not trim the ship, the Chief stoker did that. I would suspect the majority was Seedies and Tindals.

Regards Charles

Other than the navy, plenty of other manual jobs in the labour corps, entrenching and pinoeer battalions

I am always willing and eager to learn.So, in the Andrew, coal fired ships were trimmed by Ordinary Seamen and soldiers( which branch of the Army ?) under the direction of the Chief Stoker, but they were not classed as trimmers.

"I am always willing and eager to learn.So, in the Andrew, coal fired ships were trimmed by Ordinary Seamen and soldiers( which branch of the Army ?) under the direction of the Chief Stoker, but they were not classed as trimmers."

Correct they were not classed as Trimmers, which was a trade in its own right. I suppose luck of the draw if you where detailed to move coal either to the stokehold or coal ship. Like Store ship in todays Royal Navy it is a whole ship evolution organised by the Whole Ship Co-ordinator and supervised by the unlucky Petty Officer detailed, they are not all called Stores Accountants? Putting the stores in the correct rack in the store room was the job of the Stores Accountant. As was putting the coal in the boiler was the job of a Stoker.

Soldiers regularly sailed onboard HM Ships (Most Regiments have had the duty) detailed as Marines, they had to be employed.

Regards Charles

Be careful to not underestimate the skills needed to 'stoke' a ship (especially under combat conditions). My great uncle was a stoker on HMS Dublin in the North Sea 1916-1919. I spent some time writing up his service a couple of years ago. This is an extract.

The art of stoking would also have required training as the recollections of another Welsh stoker, Jack Cotterell of Pontypool who served in H.M.S. Gloucester (a near sister of the Dublin) make clear .

Shoveling coal into the flaming maw of those boilers you had to do it carefully, it’s a skilled job needing the firebed spread evenly and all the hollow spots filled and flaming to white heat. We wore tinted glasses to save our eyes from the white glare while we were looking where to spread the coal.

Small ships like the Dublin rolled even in a moderate sea. Stoking a very hot metal furnace while standing on a steel floor which pitched and yawed by as much as twenty degrees must have been dangerous, tiring and dirty work. There was little provision on such a small ship to wash off the coal after completing a watch.

The Dublin (and the other ships of the 2nd LCS) escaped the concentrated fire of the High Seas Fleet at Jutland during the run to the north. It was their 'black crews' who used their skills to speed the ships out of danger.

The Dublin and her sisters were the penultimate class of the RN's coal fired cruisers. The next generation of oil fired ships needed 50 less crewmen and were a lot cleaner and quicker to fuel. They did however lose the protection benefits of side positioned coal bunkers.

Coaling ship was horrible, but practiced as an art and the time taken to fill the bunkers was always exactly recorded and reported with an aim to improving it.

When the Dublin docked at Rosyth after Jutland, firstly the seriously wounded were taken ashore, then a collier came along side and they coaled ship for over five hours. Only then with the ship fit to sail again were the dead removed.

Stoking and coal was serious stuff!

Wdragon,

Welcome to the forum, nice write up.

Regards Charles