From stories filtered down through our family, the importance of the above made an impression on Soldiers who fought in Iraq and North Persia in WW1, I know nothing hardly about these except from the internet site. Apparently excavations have taken place with a view to exact location of the site and these continue. Architectural and biblical sites must have been of interest notwithstanding the prevailing horrific conditions of war. This is just a mention ! Possibly there are indications to the location.
At that time WW1 excavations would not have been so thorough perhaps.It appears from a Google search that the location was near certain points in vicinity of River Euphrates.

Unfortunately, according to several reports by American archeologists, who have toured Iraq, as printed in the New York Times, the site has been occupied by the US Army, building a base, a fire base, several helecopter landing zones, etc. They have used mechanical digging machines to excavate loose material to fill thousands of sandbags right in the location of the archeogical digs. When questioned by the American archeologists, the American commander brightly observed that there was no problem, that after the war or whenever one would merely have to empty the sandbags and sift the contents to recover the artifacts. Of course, then one would not know if the artifacts dated from 1000 BC or from some Tommy's kit or meal from 1918.

This is a bit off the Great War, so I do not want to beat this to death. My wife was trained as an archeologist and did several digs in the UK, which is why she has good Latin and Anglo-saxon, and fair Old Norse (Viking-speak), and why the topic is of interest under our roof. Iraq can be called, accurately, the cradle of human civilization. The ongoing disaster in this area in archeology is much wider than just the hanging gardens, the chaos and economic disruptions provide the opportunity and the incentive for the looting of the entire country for the collectors of Europe, the US, and rich oil states.

Bob Lembke

Considerable excavation and rebuilding work was carried out under the auspices of the regime of the late unlamented Saddam. This was, it seems, somewhat hamfisted and attracted criticism from Western archeaologists. In the period between the end of the Iraq/Iran war and the outbreak of the First Gulf War it was possible for Western visitors to Iraq to visit the site (a couple of hours drive from Bahgdad). There is also a Roman aphitheatre in the same vicinity and a large hole said to be the site of the Tower of Babel. One's ability to wander around was however somewhat limited by security staff (it tuned out that there was also a modern air defence control centre dug in in the vicinity [possibly and attempt to use a shield of antiquities?] but thiswas soon afterwards converted into another hole in the ground.) There is very little there that would have been visible to the casual visitor in 1914 - 1918 (although the aphitheatre might have been visible). The river is indeed close by There would be no hanging gardens! In summer, as I can testify, it gets veeerrry hot around Babylon, fortunately one of the few positive things that happened under Saddam was the development of some very good Iraqi beers and there was also a cafe bar on the outskirts of Babylon (so we sat down by the waters of Babylon and quaffed) but this too would have been absent in WW1.
At the time I visited I was part of a British Government organised exposition at the Al Raschid Hotel (at that time the Bahgdad Oberoi) under the auspices of the British Minister for Energy and the trip to Babylon was organised by the embassy. I argued for a side trip to Kut but was told that this might send the wrong signal to our Iraqi hosts!

On the site of the ancient town of Ur, birthplace of Abraham, stands a magnificent 4000 years old temple to a moon god whose name escapes me and was probably unpronouncable anyway. Ur is a few kilometres outside Nasiriyah and this structure would have been known to many of the lads of the Mesopotamian Force.

The Iraqis built an airbase right next to the site, now being used by our old mates from across the pond, but fortunately the site seems to have been unaffected by all this.

Greg

Tried to upload a piccy but there was probably too many pixels to send.

Of course the Egyptian antiquities such as the great pyramids would have been the most visited in WW1. As well as men from the British Australian, Italian and Indian units operating out of Egypt and Palestine they would also have been 'tourist' destinations for men on leave from the various allied naval units operating in the Med including American, Brazilian, French, Italian, Japanese and Russian ships

Thanks so much for your very informative reply. It is so true that architecture has suffered since the commencement of the
war in Iraq . The whole country is in continuous turmoil due to the intrusions you described. I was very very interested in information kindly given by you and very impressed. My 'relation' fought in Iraq and North Persia. A private and he was possibly in the ordnance corp. I hope in the future these -bases - will be dismantled .

................................................................................
.................................................................................
....................

Thanks so much for the very interesting information detailing personal knowledge of the area at first hand.
The story of the Hanging Gardens seems to be bathed in mystery,myth and legend. I think there us a depiction in
Greek -history- of them but I am not sure. Was there not also a legendary monument or building built as a symbol of love, but I need to look at internet sources again. I would say in the long term future, the gardens might be reproduced depending of course on the seasons as you say and the - lie of the land.
I was amused by the Beer by the Waters of Babylon !

I appreciate the reply very much and the reference to the Temple at Ur - to a moon god. Strange location for an air base
but thankfully no damage apparent. Maybe protection was hoped for - from the Moon God ! The temple sounds
splendid and I might get a chance to look it up from other sources !

Thanks for the comment. Yes, its true that so many soldiers and units would have visited sites on leave , and the Pyramids would have been the main focus. Maybe there were also storytime evenings after hard days fighting, when locals etc would have talked about important legends, like the Hanging Gardens. Lets hope that in such awful conditions around the rivers,
there were a few lighter moments.
My -relation-was Irish, based in Iraq and North Persia, and I am investigating same without much to go on.

In the 1950's - 60's I think it was the French and the British were excavating the area of Babylon. The Iraqi government in their infinite wisdom decided that this could be a major tourist attraction and built a highway down to Babylon for tourists. The unfortunate part of this was that the excavations continued and found more of the old city the other side of the highway, so technically speaking you have a motorway through the centre of Babylon, although the major sites such as the Street of Processions, Nebuchadnezzars Palace, the Hanging Gardens, the Ziggaret, Temple of Marduk, Southern Palace, Ishtar Gate are all close and on one side of the motorway, although if memory serves me correctly the Steps of Babylon and other sites were found on the other side of the motorway.

During Gulf War 1 the Iraqi's placed old military planes there, as on many other sites of historical interest, to try and get the Allies to bomb them. The other sites included the Spiral Minaret at Samarra, the Great arch at Ctesiphon, Ur and many others.

Andy

The Ishtar Gate

The Street of Processions

The Lion of Babylon, although the original is in the British Museum

The base layer of the Ziggaret

Supposed site of The Hanging Gardens of Babylon

Hanging Gardens

Temple of Marduk

Somewhere, I have some drawings of the supposed look of the hanging gardens. I will see if I can dig them out and place them here. Plenty more pictures of Babylon and some other sites in Iraq if you want to see them.

Andy

Thanks very much indeed for the above most informative information and particularly the image. This will be very interesting also for anyone -viewing - this thread. Just imagine the Iraqis inviting destruction of their own heritage !
Wasn't a good idea also to build a highway to the sites, absolutely horrific. The Ishtar Gate looks very impressive!
I must look it up further.

My goodness. Thank you again for downloading the images of the monuments and streets. It brings Iraq so much closer to see an actual image. I am now going to study them further. I appreciate especially the Hanging Gardens site and I hope this will be confirmed one day.!
I have little information personally on Iraq - I hope to visit Logistics museum sometime to read diaries of soldiers there.

Just to say again I very much appreciate the beautiful photography and the images which you so kindly included.
I will eventually investigate these historical monuments and sites. Interesting that the Lion is in the British Museum.
What I find enthralling is the light in which these scenes are set, a beautiful evening glow, sad to think of the horror of the country in present times, whatever the causes.
I am sure the Long Long Trail members will also be very interested in viewing the photography and there is some interest
already. I am no expert as you can imagine, so feel free to develop the Thread if you wish !
Thanking you for the trouble in showing the images !

http://aec.army.mil/usaec/publicaffairs/up...05/win0519.html

Thank you very much for the information given and the interest you have taken in your reply. I am sure its a good thing that steps have been taken to preserve the site. I note that MND is Polish and oversight of the area is continuing.
Because of the rules prevailing in The Forum, I cannot comment on some aspects of the reply. I am really delighted that excavation of the site continues and that the 'thread' is of interest to Members. I continue to appreciate the photography provided by Stiletto and those who replied to my comment, especially architectural experts. My relation served in Mesopotamia during WW1 and always spoke of The Hanging Gardens, apparently, so the phrase rang like a bell through echoes in our family. Maybe one day it will be safe to visit and there may be more definitive discoveries.

I was surprised to see the photograph of the Ishtar gate, the reconstructed original is in the Pergamon Museum in Berlin and magnificent it is. It was removed from the then Turkish Empire prior to WW1 and taken to Berlin where they spent about 12 years putting it back together, the museum, was delayed by the war and opened in the mid twenties..

I suspect Saddam may have had a replacement knocked up.

Regards
David

Thanks for the very interesting information. Perhaps it was removed for protection and restoration. Admirable work by Turks--I guess there were political reasons also why it wasn't returned, also being a magnificent edifice as you say.
Stillelo kindly provided all the photographs ! It seems then that the photo represents a reproduced model ?

Just as the original lion is in the British Museum, along with some magnificent stonework reliefs from around the Mosul area in Iraq. Must admit it makes you wonder.

Andy

Very true. It does make one wonder ! I hope to look at those in the British Museum very soon. I am glad the excellent images have proved to be of great interest and a stimulus to further study. Thanks

Rereading your reply with renewed interest. I note you said the report was printed in the New York Times which was something ! I get the gist and like yourself, aspects can;t be protracted on the threads. However, it is sad about
Iraq, ancient Mesopotamia. I wonder did the Hanging Gardens inspire literature at any point in history !

I am back from holiday. Just remembering, to thank you again for your interest which motivated many to iew the
excellent images. Thanks again !

Hi Joe,
I will continue to search for the drawings, I know they are somewhere.

Andy

Don't worry. Like most such stories, the accusation that the U.S. military is involved in the wholesale destruction of Iraqi archeological sites is false. The reality is that the Coalition has from the beginning worked together with Iraqi archeologists to preserve the sites. I only mention this because you seem genuinely concerned.



http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/jun2004/a060704a.html

It'll take a while for the truth to come out, but it will, after people learn to look at the situation dispassionately.

While the current U.S. military is the most lethal fighting force in history, it's also terrified of bad press. Any officer who allowed his men to destroy ancient archeological digs and then blabbed about it to journalists would find himself posted to a weather station in Antarctica the next afternoon.

Thanks so much. I intended to thanks you and my reply came up again first and foremost. There is still some interest however. It would be great to see the drawings.

Hello. Thanks for the comment and continued interest. I think we are treading on porcelain re opinions about qualities of fighting forces - - certainly true about bad press ! -

I know this is an old thread but as I have just landed..................

Here's some pictures from the mid 40's of the topic:

You might have to magnifiy them abit here and there.