I am following in the footsteps of my great Uncle, who was in 2nd Warwicks, 7th Division and am up to the point where they went to Italy in November 1917. I am planning to visit the battlefield area for a fortnight's holiday next year.

I am using the battalion war diary as my guide. I have been through some of the old thread's on the forum and note with interest that some of the places are now in modern day Slovenia.

I plan to do my own tour, flying, then hiring a car and booking hotels via internet beforehand. I wondered if any forum members have done similar and could pass on any recommendations about where to stay or where to go. Also anyone with any knowledge of routes to walk would be particularly welcomed.

Any advice/tips would be gratefully received. Similarly if any members require any photo's or information bringing back, then please get in contact.

Michael W

Michael,

One of the chaps off the war memorial I'm researching at King's School, Gloucester (Captain Basil Vassar Bruton) was killed in Italy with the 1/5th Gloucestershire Regiment, 48th (South Midland) Division.

Basically the Austrian forces launched an attack on the Division in the vicinity of Sartori and caused a bit of a stir, with the cooks, bottle-washers and miscellaneous admin types turning out to fend them off. During all this shenanigans poor old Basil got the chop.

Now I must admit that I haven't looked at this in any detail whatsoever and I'm not at all sure if this occurred in the area you're going to. If its is, then a photo of Basil's grave would be very much appreciated, but don't put yourself out in any way.

He is buried in Boscon British Cemetery, Plot 2, Row D, Grave 7.

Any help appreciated!

Bob.

Francis McKay has two books in the Battleground Europe series which covers the British part of the Italian front, at least for a good chunk of the time.
Be warned that the Asiago is a fairly popular area in the summer months - and also be warned that the front line area is often inaccessible (at least cemeteries and interesting walks) for a good chunk of the year. Finally, the driving will be 'interesting'! If not put off by all of that - enjoy! Oh, and do not miss the military museum at Rovereto, housed in the old castle, a town just behind the Austrian front line and not too far off the track from Asiago. It is a museum of the old fashioned type and not necessarily the worse for that. Nearby tere is a very large Italian cemetery (in an ossuary, which is the Italian burial method) and which also includes a lot of Austrians.
Plenty of good holidaying in the area over and above the pilgrimage part of the trip.
NTAC

I have gone this way before, and contributed a fair amount to a couple of threads on basically the same topic. Possibly you can find these via "Search".

I have not toured the battlefields themselves in detail, but I know Slovenija rather well (have been there possibly 15 times, worked there, dated the daughter of the President of Slovenija, and am considering retiring there.) I also know the battlefield area well in a general sense.

I drove thru Kobarid in Slovenija about 10 times before I realized it was Capparetto in the GW. They have a very nice fairly new WW I museum.

Slovenija is IMHO a very nice, visitor-friendly place, and most of the battlefields are there, not in Italy, I think.

The Triglav National Park covers a lot of western Slovenija and is really wonderful in many ways. It is centered on Triglav, the highest mountain in the Slovene Alps (Julius Ceaser modestly named them the "Julian Alps") and in the entire "ex'Jugoslavija", which I have climbed twice. I could even hook you up with a mountain/hiking guide.

Look for the old threads (a search on Slovenija" might work) and I will be happy to give you more advice. Perhaps you have found the old threads already.

Bob Lembke

I can also point you to several "mountain huts" (actually small rustic hotels with a restaurant) which, unusually, you can actually drive to, not climb to. They can offer interesting, friendly, different, and probably inexpensive lodging. Seperate rooms as well as dorm-style. I once rented a house near the battlefields for the nite for $1, but that was a while ago.

Bob

You might find this thread usefulAsiago

Just had a quick look, and can't see that the British divisions made it into the area that is Slovenia now. The Offy says that 2 R Warwicks waded the River Tagliamento on 4th November 1918 in the morning. This is to the west of Udine, and the narrative seems to indicate that they were then pulled back to somewhere south of Vicenza after the armistice. Italian troops pushed on to the Armistice line, which ran through Caporetto.
Again a brief look indicates that 7 Div were at the Montello, on the Asiago, and on the Piave/at Vitorio Veneto/Papdopouli Island.

Any of the lo-cost airlines routes to Northern Italy should be useful, particularly to Verona, Verona/Breschia, Bergamo, Treviso. Carhire is as usual, visited Calvisano near Breschia for a rugby game last winter, and had very few problems. We stayed on Lake Garda (visiting Sirmione, the British rest camp) quiet in the winter but I should imagine fairly busy in the holiday season. Driving can be fairly taxing on the autostrada between the major cities, and in the big cities, but otherwise its quite good. On the Asiago there are a number of small skiing in the winter/walking in the summer hotels, and they all do half-board. Therefore bread and the local cheese (excellent) take care of lunch. Its pretty quiet driving-wise up there. I've driven across the Vitorio Veneto battlefield, but not stopped, except at the CWGC at Tezze. But it looks a reasonable place to tour to follow in the 2 R Warwicks footsteps. Also driven through the Montello position, and visited Giavera CWGC.

Greenwoodman is quite correct. The bulk of the fighting on the Italian Front occurred in or near Slovenija, but at the Battle of Caparetto the Italians were pushed back quite a distance (90 miles?) to the Piave, and British and French troops were rushed in. So their activity was some distance from Slovenija. So if you focus on your great-uncle's footsteps, you never need to go to Slovenija. But I think that you would enjoy it; it is lovely, there probably is a higher level of English and German fluency (the first Slovene I ever met had 6-7 languages at 16 or 17), and it might be a bit cheaper.

The first time my Slovene mountain guide and I drove from Slovenija to Switzerland for some climbing we drove across northern Italy headed towards Zermatt, and although I barely knew him at that time, he insisted that we visit an Italian war cemetary, very dramatic, where he spoke of how the Slovenes were forced to fight, and against themselves, by both the Austrians and the Italians. It meant a lot to him. His own father was a Russian POW who was brought to Slovenija to do labor in the mountains (they built a spectacular road up to Virsic Pass, and hundreds died in an avalanche; there is a Russian-style chapel to their memory built alongside the road, on the side near Kranska Gora). Tony's father stayed, married a Slovene girl, and I knew him when he was 95.

I can't give you much info if you stick to Italy, but if you want to visit Slovenija I will be happy to give you guidance. There is an excellent pocket guide to the battlefield sites written by a Slovene woman; It was also published in German (that is what I have), and also English and probably Italian; I bought my German edition for a few dollars in a used book shop in Ljubljana, Slovenija a few years ago. Probably sponsored by the tourism board of Slovenija so it probably is still in print.

Bob Lembke

Michael

I am going to this area next week so I'll let you know how I get on. I have the two Mackay books as a guide, plus a good map which I got from the Asiago tourism office. It is the same one mentioned in the thread Greenwoodman suggests. The accompanying guide is in Italian so I've spent quite a lot of the past couple of weeks translating it...

Although I've been to Trieste and seen some of the areas just north of there which were fought over, I have yet to make it into Slovenia!

I'll post again when I get back.

Swizz

Willywombat, Nigel, Bob, Greenwoodman and Swizz,

Can I thank-you you all for taking the time and trouble to reply to my post.

Willywombat, I will endeavour to get you a photograph. It will be a pleasure. Let me know if anyone gets you one beforehand as it still seems a long time ahead.

Nigel, thank-you for the book recommendations, which are now on order. I have used your own books on previous tours and thoroughly enjoyed them. (Most recently the Battle for Vimy Ridge when I was there this June, {great to get the German perspective})

Bob, I really appreciate the info about Slovenija. It sounds like that although it is not directly linked to my own research, it is well worth a couple of excursions in a 2 week period.

Greenwoodman- really appreciate you putting me on track with where to go, stay and how to get there.

Swizz - I Hope your own trip goes well. Please do come back to me when you return. If you could start me off with a first hotel, that is reasonably priced and is a good starting point for a couple of nights that would be a big help.

The Forum continues to provide a fantastic resource of help - I only wish I had less work commitments and could get on it more. Bring on retirement!..................

This is a very interesting thread as my own Grandfather fought with the 1SSR on the Piave in October/November 1918 and it's my dearest wish to visit there someday.

Ir would be of interest to me to know if there is a bus service from Venice (as I don't drive) to the general vicinity of Pappadopoli(?) Island as it was around there that the 7th Division launched its assault.

I have been following the last several posts from California, where I was on a brief trip, but my miserable Internet access at my motel did not allow me to chime in. An irony was that on this trip I visited some old friends, for the day, who I had not seen in 15 years, and they recently decided to visit Croatia and Slovenija, and bought air tickets, so we spent several hours discussing what to see and do in those countries. The man of the couple is a bit of a climber, so I may hook him up with my Slovene mountain guide.

Michael; I would suggest that you visit Kobarid (Caporetto) and see the WW I museum, and have a bit of an experience there. I realize that the British involvement was some distance from that area, but 95% of the WW I Italian Front fighting was in that area. I suspect that there will be very little to see (museums, fortifications, etc.) in the area where the 7th Division fought, but of course you want to see where your grand-uncle fought.

Karl; Don't know the specifics in that area in Italy, but these countries typically have elaborate bus systems, usually quite reasonable. Such travel can be a bit work-intensive, but should provide exceptional personal experiences and memories. If you stay privately, with families that rent rooms to tourists, you save money and also have nice experiences (or at least experiences!) and personal contact, and your hosts might provide useful tips, and perhaps get a friend (for a bit of money) to drive you about for a day, or half a day, or whatever.

Are you going to Venice for a visit there, or do you feel that it is a good location to visit the area? A visit to Venice itself would almost certainly be quite expensive unless very carefully planned. In 1992 I spent two weeks on vacation in Jugoslavija during the worst of the civil war, and had a great time; spent one week in Slovenija, and one week in Istrija, a Croatian area near Italy, with many Italian people. We took a hydrofoil over to Venice for the afternoon, and it cost about as much as a week in Istrija. It was blazing hot, I had a small glass of beer, which should have been $3.50, but I briefly put my bottom down on a chair, and the glass of beer then was $10.50. Over 15 years ago, and a much stronger dollar! The day before I had a lunch in a very nice touristy Venician town in Istrija, Rovijn, which was Venice's principal naval base for hundreds of years, sat 20 feet from the lapping water, under fragrant pine trees on the shore, and had a seafood lunch with a nice white wine for $2 a person. (Lunch the next day in Venice was $34 for two, a 7" small pizza for each, and a tiny carafe of a vile red wine, and that was a bargain.)

Having said that, Venice might be a very good place to fly into.

You might even be able to find Italian bus schedules on the Internet. Three years ago I planned a trip down the Croatian coast, and the Croatian ferry schedules were on the Internet.

Bob Lembke

As Bob Says, there's bound to be a bus service, but the Italian train service is efficient, quick and good value. Treviso is the closest large town to Pappadopoli, and is one stop up the line from Mestre (on the mainland side of Venice and close to Venice (Marco Polo) airport). Come to think of it, I believe its Ryanair that flies to Treviso as its Venice airport from Stansted and Liverpool.

Having spent an afternoon in Venice, I am an expert.

Greenwoodman's advice seems right-on; I had not realized where you want to go is so close to Venice. Trains would be more efficient (perhaps) but certainly more foreigner-friendly information-wise. Depending on distances, one might take a local bus to get closer, and then possibly a cab, or possibly walking. I have spent about 10 days in Italy, and a total of 18 months in "ex-Juglslavija", so I can give better advice on the latter. If you want to visit Caparetto, I am sure there is a bus to Goriza (sp?), its Slovene sister-city Novo Goriza (New Goriza), and then a bus up to Kobarid; the drive is fascinating, as the bus goes higher into the Alps. You see occasional fortiifications along the road. You could go further by bus to the Vrsic Pass (6000') and down the incredible road built by Russian POWs during the war, going down to Kranska Gora, a ski-town (winter) with lots of lodging. Near the town on the right / west side of the road is a wooden Russian-style Orthodox chapel built to the memory of 300 Russian POWs killed in an avalanche while working on the road. If you go to the area try to get the guide to the battle sites, etc. written for war tourists by a Slovene woman, it is out in Slovene, English, German (mine), and probably Italian.

If you really mean walk, the Slovenes are probably the most intensly Alpine people in the world, and great hikers, with a net of trails and "huts" (perhaps 3 stories, sleeping say 80 in a dorm and private rooms, with a dining operation.) Somewhat inexpensive, probably, but not really; to many the supplies, etc. have to come in by mule-train or perhaps now by helecopter. The Slovene Alpine Society produce wonderfully detailed trail maps, with huts, etc.

Bob Lembke

Hi Michael

I'm now back from Asiago. I had a great time and there are certainly a lot of Great War related things to see - I hope to return at some stage, weather permitting.

Unfortunately I can't help you with a hotel as we ended up staying in Rovereto which is a bit away from the areas I think you're interested in. What I would suggest you do though is contact the Asiago tourist office and tell them you are interested in the First World War. Their site is here: http://web.ascom.vi.it/asiago/homepage.htm

I asked for the map entitled 'I Luoghi della grande guerra 1915-1918' and a few days later I received not only that but also info about hotels and the general area of Asiago - all for free! I found the map really useful as not only does it show where the front line was over time, but it also shows the locations of the cemeteries and where remains of trenches etc can be seen. It also differentiated between roads which are forest roads and those which have a tarmac surface. Well worth getting hold of! There are a few of my pictures from San Sisto ridge on the thread Greenwood man points you to.

We found some of the roads fairly busy although we were there in the 'high week' of the Italian holiday season (the week of 15th August) so I would imagine if you avoid that you will be OK! Some of the roads are quite narrow - in particular much of the road heading north from Gallio towards Monte Ortigara.

If there's anything else you think I can help with just let me know.

Swizz

Karl

You can look up Italian train services on the internet (and in English!). Go here: http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html

You input your departure and arrival towns and it gives you the timetables and the price. I have lived in Italy for about ten months now and I must say the train service is pretty good. I much prefer it to the bus since it seems to remove the element of risk of getting lost! As Greenwoodman says it is very good value - I can go to Milan return (nearly an hour each way) for just over 8 euro. The price is based on the distance travelled rather than the time of day, route or anything else.

We are planning to visit Venice soon, possibly in the autumn, and we are thinking of staying in Treviso and just getting the train in. And of course that would bring us much closer to a few GReat War sights of interest... (!!!)

Swizz

Venice is an amazing City but its full of bloody tourists!

Was there years ago and for a day trip from Riva in Sept. 2005 - one hectic day!

Maybe by say October it will be a bit cheaper and saner.

Treviso sounds good for a base for visiting the Piave battlefields. IIRC the 'Vitoro Veneto' Offensive began on October 23 1918 so if you were there about then it would give you the best feel for the conditions the men had to fight under.

Michael;

I just got off the phone with my former Slovene mountain guide, Anton (Tony) Sazonov, who I went to Zermatt, Switzerland four times to climb, and once to Chamionix (sp?), France. I mentioned that about twice a year Forum Pals post asking about visiting the war sites in Slovenija,and asked if he would be interested in guiding a military tourist about for a couple, few ? days. He said that he would be interested.

Tony was perhaps the most famous Slovene (or Jugoslav) climber in 20 years, one of the first climbers to do the North Wall (Nordwand) of the Matterhorn, probably dozens of first ascents (in one month 10 first ascents on Spitzenberg, closer to the North Pole than to the Arctic Circle). Only damage in 40 years climbing was the loss of the tip of one finger when forced to overnight without equipment on one of the summits of the third highest mountain in the world. (At such an altitude the temperature drops 50 degrees in the first half hour after the sun goes down.) Etc., etc. Director of an Alpine rescue service, and of an alpine school. In other words, overqualified to keep you safe if you go for an Alpine ramble. (He once saved my life just after decending a 1000' ice wall in a storm at 14,000', an hour before I had almost killed him on the ice wall.) A good while ago, when the Communist President of Slovenija decided to climb a 6000' rock face (this itself suggests that even communist Slovenes were different than most Bolshies), Tony of course was tapped to guide him up.

He of course speaks Slovene and Croatian, fair English, better German, and some French and Italian. Actually, a lot of the people in that corner of Italy are ethnic Slovenes. (The Italian is probably his weakest.) But he knows the north-east corner of Italy, known to climbers as the Dolomites; we have dallied there on the way back from Switzerland. He of course knows the Slovene Alps and countyside like the back of his hand. He of course has the internationally recognized professional guide credentials.

He has a Russian surname as his father was one of those Russian POWs brought into Slovenija to do forced labor building the Alpine roads suppling the Austro-Hungarian Army. Intelligently, he never left. Tony is not an expert on WW I, but is interested; the first time we cut across northern Italy headed for Zermatt he insisted that we detour and visit an Italian war cemetary, to show me the graves of Slovenes that the Italians and Austrians forced to fight, often against each other.

But basically Tony's greatest asset is that he is a great guy. (Unless you are up on an ice face, where his Alpine skills segue to the fore.) When we first went to Switzerland he expected that we would bring a lot of canned goods from Slovenija, and sleep in a field, but I nixed that. When, at the end of 2-3 weeks of guiding, I gave him some money, he was astonished. (But I think that it would be appropriate that he be compensated reasonably if he took some days off and guided someone about. Slovenija is now a capitalist state.)

Bob Lembke

Michael,
I see others have already given you many suggestions. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that I'm Italian and I live in Milano, so if you have any problem in translating material or to get information (not all the services have employees who can speak English), maybe I can help you.

Elena

Hi,
In early September my wife and I spent four days in the Asiago area walking some of the 1/7th and 1/8th Worcs. Battalions battles. (48th South Midland Div.) From the Worcester Regimental history ( Very detailed including maps) On 15th June 1918 the Austrians launched an attack at Cesuna attempting to push the British off the Asiago Plateau. The line was being held by the 1/5th Glosters. and 1/5th. Warwicks. Both of these battalions were almost wiped out. My particular interest was the crucial battle around Cesuna on 15th/16th. when in a night counter attack through the Asiago forest the 1/7th and 1/8th Worcs. pushed the Austrians back to their start point. This was very demoralising for the Austrians and marked the end of their offensive.

The battle area is accessible and the trenchlines and points of interest can be found in the forest. There is still battle debris there and the remains of dugouts, trenches and a blown up ammo dump. If you are interested in this area I can give you copies of the trench maps and accomodation details arond Asiago. My email is irving1@ozemail.com.au

Rob

I went walking in the Dolomites last September, and plan to go again this year. This is not the area you have in mind, but I think my experiences are transferable.

First of all, I would advise you to avoid August - it's the Italian holiday month, and you might find that accommodation both dear and hard to find. Also there may be more thunderdtorms at this time of year. That said I experienced a blizzard in early September, and heavy rain in mid-month. That said, September is recommended as the best month for walking.

Someone mentioned mountain huts (rifugi). If you plan to use these for more than a week, it is worth getting a Club Alpino Italiano membership, which will get you half-price accommodation in refuges, and sometimes slight reductions on food (ask for un piatto alpinistico, or Bergsteigerplatte).

http://proxy.racine.ra.it/CAILUGO/home/fra...anguage=inglese

Incidentally, they will accept cash via the post, if you want to avoid the eight euros banking surcharge. I have done this twice now, without problems. The CAI website also has links to Grande Guerra (Great War) websites

Books (2nd may not be directly relevant, but worth a look for general advice);

MACKAY, FRANCIS
Title: ASIAGO: 15/16 JUNE 1918: BATTLE IN THE WOODS AND THE CLOUDS - suggests tours on foot and by car, apologies if you already know of this.

Stedman, Henry
Title: DOLOMITES TREKKING: ALTA VIA 1 AND ALTA VIA 2

There is a story associated with a beautiful refuge (Novolau) http://www.altemontagne.it/rifugi/Nuvolau.html situated on top of a mountain (about two-three hours walk from Passo Falzarego, and the open air museum della Grande Guerra http://www.icsm.it/world/reportage/lagazuoi.html. In the late nineteenth century a German suffering from tuberculosis moved to the Dolomites for his health, and, in gratitude, later financed the construction of a refuge (Sachsendankhutte). In the First World War, his nephew was ordered to bomb the refuge, but missed on purpose. It was later destroyed during the course of the war, and rebuilt as Nuvolau.

I hope this belated information is of use, and that you enjoy your trip. I will supply more information on request, but stress that my experience is as yet limited to the Dolomites, rather than the eastern areas of the conflict.

Mark