My Grandfather fought at High Wood in 1916, I wish to visit the wood in March this year. Is it possible to gain access to this wood with the owners permission? Any ideas? Chris.

I always understood that it was still dangerous.

When I was there last year I could not see any obvious way in.

The problem is, the wood is owned by more than one person. It depends on what part you want to see. I would add that there is very little at ground level - surprisingly. Not even a sign of the Switch Line. The worst you could do is to go and knock on the door of the house in the wood and explain (in French, of course) your motives. Don't be surprised if the answer is 'non'.

... and becareful of the dogs (seriously)

I should have added that Terry Norman's excellent book The Hell They Called High Wood may interest you.

Thanks gents, no more than I expected I reckon! Grandad might of raised an eyebrow about having to ask for permission to venture into the wood, bet he would of loved to! My partner speaks fluent french, perhaps a tap on the door may work,you see, his right leg is still there!!

I would certainly recomend this book. It is precise, and gives a good build-up and aftermath.

It was written in 1984 and has some 'old fashioned' photos which I have not seen elsewhere.

On the subject of the High Wood book...Pen and Sword have or are going to reissue it. Brings back memories of my time in south east London living near Camberwell, as one of the 47th Divison battalions memorial in is one of the churches there.

hi Chris

As a matter of interest which battalion did your grandfather serve with at High Wood?

Yes, this book was reprinted in July, 2003 by Pen & Sword. £19.95 or £17.95 from Ray Westlake. As Burlington and Signals both say, it's an excellent read and full of detail for anyone who has a specific interest.

Tom

... and becareful of the dogs (seriously)

Don't know if the dog can be taken serious; some years ago I wandered through High Wood (Highly illegal!), was spot by the dog and he barked a lot. Soon we became friends, made a short trip and I delivered him at the house in the wood. The owner wasn't pleased at all. (About me, or the dog, don't know.)

I have seen articles where by writing a letter to the owner has
allowed people to go on an arranged date but as previously stated, it
appears to be not much to see.

In light of your family connection, I believe it is worth a letter, they can
only say no.


Regards

John

High Wood today is for me still an ominous place.

Bob.

The book is here now, I picked it up today at the library. I now have to read the book and learn, he was in the Royal Horse Artillery I think, or maybe a trench mortor unit, I have asked the long trail to investigate soon, but thanks for all of your interest. My Grandmother mentioned he spoke of High Wood from time to time, his best friend was killed there and he survived, he never forgot that!

Visited High Wood with my family in October 2003 and my wife felt a strange atmosphere along the western edge. She could imagine german voices in one particular spot. She knows nothing of the battles in this area and was amazed that the spot she experieced this was where the Switch trench goes into the wood!

I also heard that a local is diving in the crater in the north east corner of the wood and has found rifles etc?

Yes, a young lad who has more guts than brains.

He found a pile of rifles, both British and German, and various other items including shells from the A7V tank, which is quite curious. Much of this has made its way to Le Tommy.

Has anybody got a trench map, that would show where the tunnel started from, that went into the wood? How close to the wood, would my Grandfather have been, if he had been in a trench mortar crew, or with an average field gun crew? Could he have been in the wood itself, I,m led to believe that as an artillery man, he would of been miles away, yet he still managed to lose his leg there, with his best mate killed!

How close your grandfather was would depend on when he was wounded. If it was before the capture of the wood, then he would not have been near with either a trench mortar or a field gun. The nearest position for the latter would have been Caterpillar Valley probably. Unless he was involved in carrying forward ammunition or supplies to troops in the woods. After the complete capture of the wood, he might have been in the wood with a trench mortar but probably not a field gun.

I am not sure about a tunnel into the wood. There is nothing on any of the trench maps that I have. Tunnels were dug towards the wood to install the Livens and the Vincent flame throwers, one of which (the Livens) was fired at the southern apex of the wood in September.

Chris,
Have to agree with Robert we could do with knowing when you Grandfather was wounded.
My Uncle served with the 8th Royal Scots in the "High Wood" Sector between 24 July and 5 August 1916.
The Battalion dug the trench from High Wood to the Windmill.They also worked on "High Alley" and started "Thistle Alley".
Hopefully when you have read the Book you will be able to pin the time of his wounding down a bit closer and we may be able to identify the tunnel.
George

Cant believe the stuff I,m reading! This book is the most riveting read, I dont want to put it down.If any soldiers of any nationality went through this hell on earth, can we ever complain about any of our own woes! Wish I had more info on him, all I know is what my mother and auntie has told me. We have no medals, no service record, nothing. He was badly wounded at a place called High Wood, lost his best friend and spoke seldom of this place. There is a photo of a trench mortar crew, perhaps he knew them? Wish I had a date of his wounding there. I have asked Chris Baker to investigate, maybe he will get lucky! What a visit to the wood in march that would be! Thanks for your help lads, all of you, Chris.

Glad you like all of the help. I have always been amazed at the info supplied.

I am in The Somme area 12 March for a few days, may see you in Tommies?

Tony Kirk

It was really grim. High Wood is but one example of what happened in the Battles of the Somme. Delville Wood and Longueval, Pozieres, Guillemont, Trones Wood.... the list goes on. Each associated with the same grim stories of repeated attacks until finally the objective was fully captured. It was really difficult reading the British Official Histories of the entire battle. In one respect, it all seemed so futile and I remember my initial sense of anger/disgust. I was not aware of the German retreat to the Hindenberg Line. I remember being really surprised when I read about this. The doggedness of the British, Dominion and French forces clearly unsettled the German High Command, something that is often not mentioned.

We have talked about this before but there just isn't anything in English on the French role in the Somme. Well there was one, just go to the cemetery and chapel at Rancourt. When I lead US branch WFA there in April 2005 we will cover that. By the way the trip is not limited to US people nor to WFA people.

You do get glimpses of the French involvement in the OH and some other English accounts of the battles. They seemed to do well on the first day, using quite different infantry tactics to the British. Also, some of the German personal accounts eg Sulzbach and Renn were in the French sector of the Somme.

Ralph

Do you have much information from German regimental histories?

Hey Kirky, I and my partner are booked into Avrils from the 16th march - 21st, what is Tommies, is it a bar or cafe? Any gossip or info you have, could you leave there for me?The tunnel I wish to know more about, is the mine gallery in the eastern corner, where did it start from and how far away from the wood? Spoke to my mum today, her Dad is buried in an unmarked grave in her village, also in the same churchyard is the war memorial with his brothers name on, he was killed at Railway Wood and is buried in Vlamertinge. It,s unbelievable how much family stuff is forgotten or lost over a few generations, it,s only us sad buggers who seem to care or dig it back up again! Any one recommend a decent eating house in Albert?

Chris,

It's wonderful to read between your lines and savour the enthusiasm being generated.

If I can offer a suggestion with regard to negotiating access. Too many land owners are put off by less than honest souvenir hunters. Being able to establish your bona fides in French is always a good start and being armed with enough fascinating information to demonstrate a genuine and specific family interest may also help. You might also like to consider asking to be allowed to leave a poppy cross (or wreath) in an appropriate and agreed place.

High Wood has become increasingly attractive to all sorts of visitors, not least because it is one of the few areas not cleared after the war and thus also dangerous. If it were my wood I would be fed up with the number of trespassers by now.

Good luck, however, and let us know how it goes.

Tommies is a bar/cafe/restaurant and museum on the main road at Pozieres.

You can't miss it; they have a couple of model WW1 soldiers outside

Chris,
photo of Tommies Cafe taken July last year


Peter

Some info about the house from the book "Courage Past" by Alex Aiken is that it was built about 1934 on a clearing in the southern corner where the devastation was greatest. They were getting mail deliveries in July last year as this still from a film I took shows


Peter

Chris, if you do get permission to go in an take some photos, please put me on the wishlist. All I did was peer through the barbed wire fence and saw nothing.

Photo taken outside Le Tommy 2003, after a few of Domonic's beer's ?

Laventie

Chris,

We're all routing for you. Hope you can gain legal access. If you’re granted a visit I too would love to see some pictures so please post some on the forum. You'll love visiting Le Tommie! If the music isn’t own when you go out to see the exhibit just ask at the bar. It adds a great touch to the atmosphere.

Also I'd like to hear more about the mines and tunnels if anyone "digs" any info up.

All the best,
Jon

P.S. I must admit The Hell the Called High Wood is one of my favorite Great War books. I really hope Pen & Sword do release it!

It is released in hardback, ISBN 0 85052 986 7

Published by Pen & Sword 2003

What I like about this book is that the detail of the pre-and post-attack situations is far better/more detailed than many of the more modern books published by Pen & Sword covering the Somme.

This of course is probably more a reflection of people's ability to read a very detailed account, marketing issues, price and so on than the scholarship of the author(s).

I am trting not to cause offence here. All books are good (if they are accurate); some grab you more than others.

I got into High Wood by climbing over a fence in July 1976. I remember seeing a pyramid stack of shells about 4ft high and covered in moss! I didn't hang around too long, partly because it was clearly a dangerous place to be but most of all beacause it felt so spooky!

Alec

Am off to Prague for a week this morning, but will continue this stuff on return, what I can say is to all of you, if I do get permission to gain access to the wood, I will share any photo,s available with you! Anything I can do for you when I am there,just ask! My Partner is Czech and her Grandfather fought on the eastern front, she also speaks fluent german,french and russian. Any translating, just email her at my address ok, thanks for all of your advice, talk again in a week or so, drinking loadsa czech beer requires a good recovery time,ha! Chris.

Hip hip hurray! That is good news, thanks!

My partner who speaks french, needs an address, of the owners of High Wood, so she can write them, ref our visit in March, anyone help please? Thanks. Chris.

We will be visiting High Wood as previously mentioned, even if access is refused, the exterior area should be fascinating! Can anybody download a detailed trench map covering up to the final onslaught in September please?

There are some small maps in the High Wood book by Terry Norman, see earlier postings.

Here is a section of trench map dated 29 Sept 1916

Can someone help with a query on High Wood please?

About 300 yards in front of the wood is an embankment in the middle of the large field.

This would seem to be a great place for the troops to gather/hide etc prior to an attack especially as there is little cover anywhere else. However, I have never seen anything on this spot mentioned and wondered if any of you guys can help?

Tony

Sorry Kirky to be picky but when you say 'in front' which front please?

Regards

Hello Kirky

I know where you mean. I have had the same thoughts. When I am there in three weeks time, hopefully, I will investigate myself. There is a strip of rough ground dividing the fields which you can walk along to get there. I have put a map below to confirm it is the same place we are talking about.

Terry

Here is a photo of the same area

Terry,

Good luck on your explore! Even with all the time I spent traipsing around the Somme I never found the time to cross Caterpillar valley on foot and explore the "dead zones" that the German's couldn't cover with direct fire from High Wood. Let us know if you find anything interesting.

Cheers,
Jon

I once explored this area and found a large number of ersatz 155 shell cases, indicating a German battery site, probably from 1918. I suspect it was an area of advanced company or battalion HQs in 1916.

Terry etc

yes that is the place! I reckon it is also the line the South Staffs took when they attacked High Wood in July.

When I checked it out a couple of years ago there were a couple of spade heads around but it looked like it had been metasl detected as there were many holes dug out all around.

Tony

All the info' I have suggests my father was wounded at High Wood,He served with the Post Office Rifles.
He had a notebook in his posession which lists the killed and wounded,a large number of which occured
on the date of the High Wood assault He was apparantly picked up by a German medic squad and spent
a brief period in captivity before being returned to the U-K minus one leg.
I will try to attach the list to this post as it may help other researchers'Click to view attachment

My research indicates that my Great Uncle Tommy died at High Wood on July 15th along with 191 other members of the Glasgow Highlanders, from the contents of the War Diary and the description in Shoulder to Shoulder it sounded like a massacre that could have been avoided. He has no grave but is on the Thiepval memorial, if anyone has any information or sources that I could look into that could confirm this I would be very grateful.

In Memory of
Private THOMAS FORBES SIM

331434, 9th (Glasgow Hdrs.) Bn., Highland Light Infantry
who died age 20
on 15 July 1916
Son of Mr. and Mrs. Robert Sim, of 27, Laverockhall St., Springburn, Glasgow.
Remembered with honour
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Welcome Simmer
As others have suggested the best book on High Wood is "the Hell of High Wood" you will find more info on this Forum.You may find it usefull to visit my other thread under Soldiers "John Carter"
http://1914-1918.invision
zone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44551&st=0&#entry374880