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The attached photo shows three tanks knocked out near Bourlon during the battle. One is clearly identified as F30 and another looks as though it might be F31. Can anybody identify the unit involved and provide any additional information? The usual virtual box of chocolates and grateful thanks for responses.

Jack

Hello Jack

The F indicates F Bn (aka 6th Bn) Tank Corps, which on 20 Nov 17 was supporting 36 Bde, 12th Division, in III Corps around Gonnelieu. During the next ten days or so F Bn was also used in support of 29th and Guards Divisions. There are several references in the OH, 1917 Volume III.

Ron

PS Do your parents still live at Nettleham?

Ron

Thank you for that swift response. Most helpful. The answer to your question is no. They moved to near Matlock in 1979 and my mother lives there to this day.

Jack

Photo obviously been taken after the battle as someone has been able to remove the sponsons from two of the tanks and the gun and shield from the third. What photos I've seen suggest that the Germans tended to remove them intact from the battlefield (shifting them without the sponsons could lead to distortion of the frames). All the tanks show little or no damage. and are not obviously bogged. Do you have any other info on the photo?

Sadly not, although the middle one has somehow thrown a track. The photo comes from the regimental history of the Fusilier Guards which, as part of 3rd Guards Division, was involved in intense fighting around Bourlon from about 23-24 November. All the histories of this division emphasise that they were able to bring tanks to a halt during the battle using SmK (hardened steel-cored bullets) ammunition fired from machine guns at close range. In other words they may have forced tanks to halt because of the way the crew inside was being peppered with fragments, without actually setting off fuel or ammunition. Tanks hit by artillery tended to disintegrate.

Jack

I think that the photo attached shows the same scene.

From the original photo posted, I think that F30 has taken a direct hit on the port sponson - there's a dark shape that looks like twisted metal to me. The source that should answer the question is Gibot and Gorzcynski's "Following the Tanks". Anyone out there have a copy handy?

Gwyn

only the map not ythe book

Possibly the same scene at different times. Picture no 2 (which I have filed under Flaming Fire II) hows 4 tanks and no sponsons removed whilst the first shows only 3 and some sponsons have been removed. Possibly the second was taken as tanks were being stripped down/removed.

Another photo that matches Gwyn's view but after the sponsons had been removed. The dark shape is still there but appears to be just aft of the sponson. Can't explain the appearance of the small post beside F31 or the taller one in front of F30.

I note the ground is quite dry in this last photo and very wet in the first. All in all this suggests a sequence. Photo 2 shows the scene just after the battle, photo 3 after the preperation/strip down has begun (has F31 had its engine removed?) and photo 1 shows the scene after one of the tanks has been removed (with rain in the iterim). I can only find photos of B and I tanks actually being removed intact from the battle field. It would be interesting to know which of the Fs the two tanks facing the camera were. Not I think F17 as I have found a photo of this with a German guard that looks as if it is in a slightly different location (there is a belt of barbed wire).

One and All

I am absolutely amazed and delighted at the quality of your responses. Many thanks indeed. Over the next few months I shall be assembling an album of photos for my forthcoming book about Cambrai. If anybody has any other well identified photos which they would be willing to let me use and would like to see in print, with full acknowledgment of course, I am sure that they would enhance the book and I should be pleased to hear from you.

Jack

The tank furthest from the camera in the second and third photos is not necessarily missing in the first. It is possible that it is out of the frame. There has been some stripping started in the second photo (i.e. earliest of the three) because the tank immediately behind F31 is missing at least one of the sponsons.

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Here is another photo of F27 "Fighting Mac II" and F30 "Flaming Fire II", from Gibot and Gorczynski. They were knocked out in proximity to F2, FS2(?) and F31 near Bourlon on 27/11/17.

Looking at Geralds photo I would suggest the poles may be the remnants of a hop field.

we have a load of pics of D51 (Debroah)from a couple of years ago

I have difficulty with that as the first photo is pretty wide pan and looking at the other photos given the relative size of image the two tanks at right angles to F30 and F31 are not that far apart.

I've found more photos in my large file "to be catalogued". Posting them below.

Gwyn

and the next

another

There's another two to go but I'll do those tomorrow. Nothing's gone right today and this isn't either!

I'm off to cry into my whiskey and hope for a better day to come...

G'night

Gwyn

Right then, refreshed now! Here's another.

Gwyn

Sorry - can't upload the last as file's too big.

Gwyn