Some Pals may remember how, about a year ago, Steven Broomfield posted this picture:



Steven wanted to know where the cross was photographed, where it originally came from and where it is now.

Pals were able to suggest that it originally came from Ovillers, on the Somme, but that was all and the trail very quickly fizzled out.

I didn't see this thread at the time. I only found it in the last week or so. I was searching for anything about the 12th (Eastern) Division because I was getting ready to put a new 12th Division article on my site. I was amazed to see Steven's photo, because the new article is about this very same cross!

Martin Middlebrook was travelling a long, long way from home when he saw this cross in its present location, and he has written an article for my site about its history and its long journey from Ovillers to the living-room in the photo, and beyond.

The first person I told about this article was Steven B himself, but if any other Pals would like to read the full story, CLICK HERE.

Tom

Personally I am saddened that this important Memorial Cross, that marks a memorial to so many men from from the Home Counties has been taken out of the country to an obscure location several thousand miles away. A far suitable final destination would have been one of the museums for any of the Regiments whose battalions formed the 12 Division - but I dont suppose the Huxtable family bothered asking them.

I have to say I was amazed when Tom contacted me last night, and my pleasure was unbounded at finding out the history of the Cross, and its whereabouts when the photo was taken. I had been chasing an entirely different route - a complete red herring, if ever there was one.

Like Jonathan, I am saddened that it's been housed in a museum thousands of miles away, in a place with - really - no connection to it. I do wonder, though, whether this was due to the fact that we are talking about 10 years ago: would there be a different outcome now, with interest in the Great Warr apparently much greater?

We'll never know (unless we want to start a campaign to "Get the Cross Back").

Steven makes an interesting point - ten years ago is longer than we sometimes think, isn't it? Martin M does mention that a relative of the family - a retired General - tried unsuccessfully to find a recipient in England. Presumably a retired General would have some good ideas about the kind of place which might be suitable, and a fair amount of "presence" when raising the matter. He still seems to have failed to find a taker, though.

Tom

Steve - I have already emailed the Museum and asked them to consider returning it to one of the Home Counties museums whose men were killed at Ovillers and in whose honour the Cross was erected.

Tom - as stated in my email earlier, I dont think this Retired General could have tried very hard. For example the Royal West Kent museum houses the Kohima Cross - doesnt take much room. I cannot believe that the late Col Waring would have refused the Ovillers Cross had it been offered 5 - 10 years ago. The 6 Bttn of the Royal West Kent's took a hammering at Ovillers with around 620 officers and ORs going over the top and around 230 answereing the roll call next day.

It's a great story, and thanks for publishing it Tom. However, I'm saddened that there is criticism of those who rescued it. It's quite obvious that no one was interested in it after the war, as there were arrangements made for those formations who wished to have a permanent memorial erected via the Battle Exploits Committee The memorial at Ovillers is not on the committee's list.

It is to the family's credit that, at their own expense, they found a home for it where it is obviously cherished. It's also unfair to criticise the senior officer who apparently failed to find a home for it, without knowing the full facts - not of course that it has anything to do with this forum.

Instead, can we please applaud those who do some good, instead of fault finding, firing off e-mails, and wanting to start campaigns, without even considering the implications.

Terry Reeves

Terry my research would suggest you are wide of the mark. It was determined by the powers that be that the 12 Div would have two Memorials, one at Feuchy and one at Ephey. It would have been most suitable for the Division to have had a Memorial at Ovillers where many of the First One Hundred Thousand were killed.

The 12 Division had a thriving Old Comrades association for officers, and this commenced almost from the Armistice. One of the key figures was Capt Hodgson-Smith of the 6 bttn QORWK, who acted as a conduit to keep the memory of the 12 Division alive and organised many of the Divisional dinners and functions in the early 1920s. We are given a very insightful view of "Hodgy" from the autobigraphy of Alan Thomas - Hodgy was meticulous for keeping inventories and hoarding and organising. It is inconceivable that he would not have been interested in the fate of this Memorial Cross had he known it was to be moved from Ovillers - in fact his closest friend Lascelles Barnett had been killed in this attack - and indeed Hodgy may well have been instrumental in bringing back the Cross to England. Hodgy not only wrote large parts of the Regimental History regarding the 6 bttn but he was also the force behind the history of the 12 Division. Indeed it could probably be said that there would be no 12 Div history (as he raised pre-publication subscriptions in order that it could be written), nor would the 12 Division have had much of a post-war existence had Hodgy not organised, contacted fellow offices, found venues for the Divisional dinners etc that followed the armistice. Upon publication of the Regimental History, at his own expense, Hodgy sent copies to the Other Ranks of his company and also to the parents and wives of the battalion's officers who had been killed in the war. Not a character that gives the impression that he would not have been interested in what would happen to this important Memorial and certainly not a character that would have abandoned it.

A quick look at the 6 bttn QORWK fatality list for 3 July and where nok details are given, a high proportion refer to Kent villages or other Home Counties. As the 12 Division was formed from the first Service Bttns we can assume the other Regiments represented in the 12 Division were also "home grown" battalions. It is completely wrong that a Memorial commemorating men from Home County battalions should be kept in an obscure part of Canada in the same way that I wouldnt expect to find an important Memorial to men of the British Columbia Regiment in Maidstone or Canterbury.

I would very much like to know who this retired General was and who he contacted in regard to finding a new home for the Cross. I doubt he contacted Col Waring at the QORWK museum because my knowledge of this stalwart of the Regiment's history suggests he was personally interested in the Great War, his father having served in the 1 bttn QORWK in F&F, and specifically Col Waring appears to have had an interest in the 6 bttn as he was purchasing 6 bttn memorabilia from auctions or happily accepting 6 bttn donations for the Regimental Museum. This suggests he was not approached and we can only wonder who the Cross was offered to.

Much of my research - my time and effort - centres on the 6 bttn QORWK and I do my utmost to keep "the spirit of the sixth" alive as you well know, therefore I have every interest in this Cross and that it has a meaningful and rightful final location.

Jon

Thank you for that, which is very interesting, but does not really tie in with your comments. The obvious fact is, that no one was interested in the memorial, and it is wrong to criticise both the family who were instrumental in rescuing it, and the unknown senior officer who apparently made an effort to keep it in this country. I really don't see how you can justify the remark, the the retired general "could not have tried very hard". By your own admittance, you know nothing about him. It is also 12 months since the subject was broached on this forum, and no one else has bothered to try to follow the subject up, so I can't see where all this high dudgeon comes from.

Good luck to the family and those in Canada, who have taken a genuine interest in the memorials safe keeping.

TR

The first thing is I am not filled with confidence that the article does not name the General but just refers to him as "retired General". Also you cannot tell me who the "retired General" contacted with regard to the Cross or the extent of his effort to keep it in the country. Did he just contact a local museum in Dorchester? Was it the IWM? I would have thought the first thing to do would be to contact the Regimental museums involved in the 12 Div - my knowledge of the then Curator of the QORWK museum (who were in the thick of it right in front of what was Ovillers village) suggests the offer was not made to this museum as I know for a fact the museum was purchasing and collecting memorabilia to the 6 bttn QORWK of the 12 Div in the 1990s.

Also I have given you a reasonable account of an individual whose character and actions suggest he would have been very interested in the fate of this Cross - his dedication to the memory of his battalion and 12 Division is a fact. Therefore I do not accept that "no one else was interested in the Memorial", which is your opinion but does not fit the facts I have at hand and is in fact an assumption that does not reflect well or acurately on the officers of the 12 Division.

Myself and Steve B also communicated off forum regarding this Memorial Cross and the thread to which you refer does not tell the full story of our attempts to locate the Cross. Steve having followed up his lead with no success (obviously) and I also corresponded with an academic military historian who wrote his thesis on the 12 Division in an attempt to pursue the location of the Cross (our last correpsondence was within the last 10 weeks), so again you are wide of the mark to say "no one else has botherd to try and follow the subject up".

This is a very important Memorial Cross to those interested in the 12 Division - its export to Canada is clearly wrong and I have genuine concerns as to what effort was made to find a suitable home for it in the south-east, where it obviously should reside.

Of course, Dorchester has the museum in The Keep of the old barracks: home to the museum of the Devon & Dorsets. Obviously, neither of the constituent regiments have a link to the 12th Divn (and last time I was there, about 15 years ago it was pretty rocky, tho' it has improved, I believe), so that might be why the Cross didn't end up there.

I'm torn: I agree that at least the Cross does have a home and hasn't ended up as kindling - for which I am extremely grateful - but at the same time it is a pity it's travelled across the Atlantic. I wonder if the Canadian links were a good way of shifting it without too much trouble?

Maybe we'll never know the answer.

It would be nice to have it back, but I guess the cost would be pretty high, and (of course) it's new 'owners' might not want to repatriate it. Shades of the Elgin Marbles, methinks.

Of that I am sure we are all in agreement.





This is where myself and Terry differ.

Jon

My case is quite clear, and that is not what I said. Not to worry, I'll contact you off forum.

TR

Martin Middlebrook has asked me to place the following here:




Tom

It is a pity that such a wonderful article cannot be appreciated without causing disharmony. None of us, including museums, would have much Great War memorabilia if the logic of returning everything to its rightful home was pursued. No doubt we can all recount stories of how we rescued items from certain loss or destruction. Does that mean we should donate them to the 'right place'? The response to Martin's story has been pathetic and would be enough to make lesser men give up. Congrats Martin for a lovely piece and keep up the good work.
Jimmy.

Tom,

Thank you for posting Martin Middlebrooks's comments - unfortunately I feel to those interested in the 12 Division his article has raised more questions than answered with regards to the Ovillers Memorial Cross and the past 75 years.

I certainly have an issue as to with extent the family tried to fine a suitable "home" for the Cross. Appropriate Regimental Museums being an obvious suitable location, or IWM, NAM etc. I find it very difficult to believe that all of these museums would have rejected the offer of having the Cross if it was made to them.

Of course the most appropriate location for the Cross is Ovillers itself and it would have been considerate to have approched the Mairie at Ovilliers-La Boiselle and offer the Cross to the church at Ovillers in the first instance. On the otherhand I find the most inappropriate location for the Cross to be, well, Kelowna. Somewhere the men it is supposed to commemorate would never of heard of and far away from the counties of Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Berkshire, Sussex, Surrey, London, Kent et al that was their home.

I would consider it a failure to their memory (and I do actively remember them) to not be left with an extremely "sour" taste concerning its current location.

Regards,

Jonathan S