Does anyone have a casualty list for the monitor HMS Glatton, from the explosion September 1918.

Geoff's very wonderful search engine produces 98 hits. I haven't checked them all, but certainly the first half dozen are all casualties of the explosion: http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/sx2.php?v...=1&pageno=1

Interesting that the Glatton was lost off Dover in 1918 but bodies were recovered at least 24 months later and buried in the Naval Cemetery in Gillingham - approx 50 miles distant from Dover. I have never got to the reason why and have always been perplexed by the remains being recovered so much later. Without being gruesome I wouldnt have thought the sea would have left much to recover.

Glatton wasn't 'lost off Dover', Jon — she blew up in Dover harbour.

Here's the Admiralty files:
ADM 1/8538/245 HMS GLATTON sunk in Dover harbour after explosion on 16 September 1918. Casualties 1918

ADM 116/1625 Loss of H.M.S. GLATTON - Court of Enquiry etc. 1918
ADM 137/3791 Loss of HMS GLATTON 1918 Sept 16-Sept 24

Cheers all, the casualty i have been checking also gives the date of death as the 15th September 1916, is this a mistake as the Glatton from posts gives explosion on the 16th September

JOHNSON, ALFRED JOSEPH
Stoker 1st Class
Royal Navy H.M.S. Glatton
Date of Death: 15/09/1918 K/19408

Grave/Memorial Reference: Naval. 15. 804-6.
Cemetery: GILLINGHAM (WOODLANDS) CEMETERY

This is a mass grave and also serves as a memorial to the loss of HMS Glatton by the internal explosion.

The casualty file will probably have next of kin and may even have examples of the notification that was sent out.
Service register:
Name Johnson, Alfred Joseph
Official Number: K19408
Place of Birth: Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire
Date of Birth: 02 May 1894
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

It wasn't until March 1930, some 11 and a half years after the explosion, that the remains of 57 sailors (The Times reported 58) who died in the explosion were recovered "during shipbreaking operations on the wreck." Why the long delay, I don't know (perhaps the presence of unexploded ordnance prevented a faster salvage). Once recovered, the remains were taken to Chatham Naval Hospital and later carried with fully naval ceremony to be buried in Gillingham Cemetery (Naval 15, 804-6).

The Times reported that the "casualties numbered 80 altogether". Though they reported 58, I could find only 57 casualties buried in Gillingham Cemetery (they are Royal Navy, unless noted otherwise).

ALFORD, ALFRED, Petty Officer Stoker
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056428

ALLANTON, GEORGE, Ordinary Seaman
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056429

AMES, WILLIAM, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056432

BAKER, ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056449

BARLOW, BERTRAM, Able Seaman
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056455

BEATTY, ALFRED, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056467

BENNETT, WILLIAM STEPHEN, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056476

BENSON, JOHN WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056480

BRIDGE, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056506

CARD, WALTER ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056536

CAVE, HENRY, Petty Officer Stoker
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056541

CLIFTON, ROBERT, Ordinary Seaman
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056560

COPP, WILLIAM JACOB, Petty Officer
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056574

COWDREY, CHARLES, Chief Engine Room Artificer
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056580

CURT, ALBERT, Ordinary Seaman
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056595

DICKSON, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056620

DREW, REGINALD JAMES BLAKENEY, Lieut-Commander
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056629

GENEE (aka GENCE), RAPHAEL AUGUSTE, Petty Officer Stoker
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056684

GREENWOOD, RALPH DUKE, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056703

GROVE, WILLIAM GEORGE, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056705

HARDEN, PERCIVAL JACK ROBERTS, Ordinary Seaman
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056715

HARDEN, WILLIAM FREDERICK, Able Seaman, RNVR
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056716

HEATH, CHARLES BENJAMIN, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056730

HILL, ALFRED HERBERT, Officer's Cook 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056741

HOWARD, CHARLES, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056757

JOHNSON, ALFRED JOSEPH, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056787

JONES, WILLIAM TREVOR, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056791

KNAPP, EDWIN, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056804

KNIGHT, ROBERT, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056807

LAKE, WALTER, Petty Officer
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056811

MACKIE, THOMAS BREBNER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056854

MAKIN, CHARLES THOMAS, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056869

MARTIN, PETER, Petty Officer
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056879

MILLER, FREDERICK JOHN, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056889

MILLS, THOMAS RICHARD, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056892

MOGER, CHARLES WILLIAM, Private, Royal Marine Light Infantry
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056896

MOTTRAM, ALFRED HENRY, Leading Stoker
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056906

NETTLESHIP, WILLIAM, Stoker 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056914

OWEN, GEORGE ARTHUR, Chief Petty Officer
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056923

RHODES, FRANK, Shipwright 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056973

ROBSON, GEORGE COLLINGWOOD, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056978

SCORER, THOMAS, Stoker 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056991

SHADWELL, FREDERICK WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056999

SHAW, ALFRED BERNARD, 3rd Class Waiter
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057001

SIMPSON, FREDERICK WALTER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057008

SMALL, MARTIN, Stoker 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057014

SMITH, THOMPSON, Stoker 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057023

STAMP, TOM, Petty Officer Stoker
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057030

STARKEY, CHARLIE AGUSTA, Petty Officer Stoker
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057033

STENSON, WALTER, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057035

STUBBS, GEORGE, Stoker 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057046

SULLIVAN, MICHAEL, Shipwright 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057047

TAYLOR, GEORGE HENRY, Stoker 1st Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057057

WAUGH, MATTHEW, Stoker 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057113

WHITINGTON, JOHN JAMES, Boy Servant
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057126

WILLS, JOHN, Stoker 2nd Class
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057136

WRAY, ROBERT MCGREGOR, Leading Stoker
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3057147


An additional 23 casualties (+) of HMS Glatton who all, except for one, died after the day of the explosion:

ANDREWS, F. W. (Frederick William), Master at Arms, d.03/10/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3055402

AYLING, H. F., Petty Officer Stoker, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=361715

BALCOMBE, JAMES, Chief Gunner, d.18/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=361518

BOYLAND, CHARLES, Private, Royal Marine Light Infantry, d.02/10/1918, HEMYOCK CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=349709

BROWN, WILLIAM THOMAS, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365463

COSTELLO (aka SNOWBALL), ROBERT, Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365500

HENSHAW, ALBERT HAROLD, Cook's Mate, d.19/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=361585

JOHNS, RICHARD, Private, Royal Marine Light Infantry, d.21/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (EASTNEY OR HIGHLAND ROAD) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=361398

KING, H. G., Cook's Mate, d.21/09/1918, WELLS CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=394546

MARTIN, A. K. (Arthur Kenneth), Officer's Cook 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3055464

ODDY, J. H. (John Haralio), Leading Cooks Mate, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=361949

ROWE, R. W., Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DALTON-LE-DALE (HOLY TRINITY) CHURCHYARD
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=354553

SAVE, G. A., Carpenter's Crew, d.17/09/1918, FULHAM PALACE ROAD CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2905321

SOLLERS, PERCY, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class, d.17/09/1918, LLANTILIO PERTHOLEY (ST. TEILO) CHURCHYARD
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=389732

SPENCE, JOSEPH, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365738

SPOONER, ALBERT HENRY, Able Seaman, d.26/09/1918, FUNTINGTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=402732

STOKER, J., Stoker 1st Class, d.25/09/1918, SUNDERLAND (MERE KNOLLS) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=353845

VASS, A. S., Able Seaman, d.18/09/1918, FLEET (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2758331

VAUGHAN, C. H., Plumber's Mate, d.28/09/1918, WREXHAM CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=671216

WARWICK, L. C., Signal Boy, d.19/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=362409

WEIR, ROBERT, Able Seaman, d.16/09/1918, DALZIEL (AIRBLES) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=4029471

WELLS, R., Leading Stoker, d.23/09/1918, EFFINGHAM (ST. LAURENCE) CHURCHYARD
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=401029

WHITE, R. G. (Robert George), Leading Stoker, d.17/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3055500


regards,
Martin

+ 19 Jan 2008: Added H. G. KING - thanks Orson.

Wulston,

Not the full list, but here are some details on one casualty from Widnes, Lancashire. Soldier 75 Harry

E.R.A. 4th Class Alfred Beatty
No.M28409
HMS “Glatton”
Born : Not known.
Enlisted : Not known.
Resided : 49 Frederick Street, Widnes, Lancashire.
Killed in an explosion on 18th September, 1918, aged 22.
Buried at Woodlands Cemetery, Gillingham, Kent.
Commemorated on the family headstone in Widnes Cemetery.

The son of John & Annie Beatty, Alfred Beatty was killed in an explosion on his ship in Dover harbour.# HMS “Glatton” was a coastal monitor of 5,700 tons and was part of the Dover Patrol. The cause of the explosion was thought to be ammunition exploding.##
# WWN 1918. ## British vessels lost at sea 1914-18.
*****

Hi.

I Googled a further 22 casualties, almost all dying after the day of the explosion. I've appended these to my earlier post. Not sure if there are any others but the total number seems to tally with reports.

While looking around, I noticed some websites saying that Admiral Keyes later ordered the Glatton to be torpedoed (to avoid a catastrophic explosion) knowing that there were still sailors trapped inside the burning ship. Does anyone know anything about this?

The site below, which gives a description of the disaster, doesn't seem to subscribe to that theory:
http://www.bobhenneman.info/glatton.htm

regards,
Martin

My confidence in this account might be higher if its author had correctly identified the sister ship of Glatton as Gorgon rather than Gordon ...

Martin, pm sent and many thanks for the work relating to the list and again thanks to all the posts, ive been checking a biography about Roger Keyes and i cannot find any evidence re the torpedo and sailors aboard either.
noted some casualties listed as died as early as the 10th Sept 1918 ?

Thanks, wulsten. I'll post here if I find anything more. I think those casualty dates that pre-date the explosion may be just plain wrong, especially the 16/04/1918. I don't know the exact date of the commissioning of HMS Glatton but I think it was just a few months prior to the explosion on 16/09/1918. Probably transcription errors.

regards,

Martin

As the Court of Enquiry proceedings survive, they should reveal any account of the circumstances and if Keyes gave any such order it should have been revealed.

The Glatton disaster has been aired on the forum several times before.

Not that it is gospel, but I have the volumes of "I was there" - first hand accounts of the Great War. Glatton is featured, together with photos of her salvage (1920's not 1930) when the last remains were recovered.

It certainly recounts the Admiral Keyes torpedoing, as does the linked article mentioned in post 11.

I am not sure of the reasons for the time taken to commence salvage ops, but maybe as she had 'turned turtle' and sank upside down it might have proven not so easy to raise her. Maybe the Scapa salvage work was an incentive!

Ian

Hi.

Yes, the salvage was in the 1920's (she was finally raised in Feb 1926) but the opening of the monitor didn't begin until Nov of that year (in the area of the bunkers) and the remains of the sailors were not discovered/removed until Mar 1930.

In regard to Admiral Keyes ordering the monitor to be torpedoed, is there anything in those first hand accounts to suggest that he did this knowing that there were still survivors onboard? I'm just interested to learn if suggestions of this on some websites have any basis in fact.


regards,
Martin

Martin,

I will look up the book when I am home tonight.

From memory I am sure that the knowledge of trapped crew was there - it was a question of crew/ship versus Dover.

Ian

Thanks, Ian. I appreciate that.

If it was true, even though it was the lesser of two evils, it still must have been a difficult order for Keyes to give.

regards,
Martin

Martin,

Can you just imagine it?

That said, I think the trapped crew might not have been readily saved in any case.
The ship had been previously ammunitioning. It is not hard to immagine the consquences of letting the fire get to the magazines.

I think the ships (part of the Dover patrol) were preparing for the bombardment in support of 4th Ypres later in Septmber 1918.

Ian

I'm going to contact the CWGC and query the dates of death for 4 of the Glatton casualties, namely:

CLIFTON, ROBERT, Ordinary Seaman, d.15/09/1918
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056560

HEATH, CHARLES BENJAMIN, Stoker 1st Class, d.10/09/1918
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056730

HILL, ALFRED HERBERT, Officer's Cook 1st Class, d.16/04/1918
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056741

JOHNSON, ALFRED JOSEPH, Stoker 1st Class, d.15/09/1918
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3056787


According to the Miramar Ship Index, HMS Glatton wasn't completed until 08/09/1918 so, if this date is correct, it seems unlikely there would have been any earlier casualties. I think the dates are probably simply transcription errors.

Can anyone confirm the commissioning date of the Glatton from another source?

Thanks.
Martin

Interesting thread... I have been meaning to do a detailed write up on the loss of the Glatton in Dover harbour for kentfallen project. I'm busy with non-comms at the moment but if anyone else wants to do it then I would be pleased to allow the work to go on kentfallen?

Nice to see that these guys are not forgotten. I will try and post a photo of their tribute in Woodlands Cemetery, Gillingham next week.

The dates are scanning or typo errors and have been reported.

Martin,

Source: The Great War - I Was There vol 3

Article accredited to Capt W J Pearce, skipper of Dover tug "Lady Brassey"

There is too much to type out, so I just give a precis:

16 Sept 1918 - Dover harbour a scene of bustling activity as vessels prepared for a bombardment of the Belgian coast the next day. Four monitors side by side: Marshal Soult, General Wolfe, Gorgon and Glatton.

The Glatton had been coaling for the past hour or so and the collier was shifting to the Gorgon when there was an explosion. A blanket of white smoke rose from the Glatton amidships and then flames. The Lady Brassey was manoeuvered alongside the Glatton, now fiercely burning. Already many wounded were on deck.

The Lady Brassey deployed a hose party to try and fight their way forward to where there were wounded, and there was a party of ratings attempting to get below to flood the magazines and open the seacocks, so as to sink the ship. The great risk of a major explosion amongst the number of fully ammunitioned ships had been immediately recognised.

The skipper of the Lady Brassey had returned to his ship to organise more fire-fighting equipment when a pinnace came alongside carrying Admiral Keyes plus other officers. Keyes boarded the LB to get access to the Glatton and ordered the LB away clear of the burning ship. But ten minmutes later the LB was called alongside once more as Keyes wished to go ashore.

There followed another explosion - possibly caused by bridge ack-ack ammunition going off. The Glatton was by now down by the head, but whilst the danger had passed from the forward magazine, the aft of the ship was well alight, with the continued danger of exploding the aft magazine. Keyes was taken ashore at the Camber - a small dock near the Eastern end of the harbour.

After considering the options, Keyes decided on torpedoing the Glatton. The authorities cleared the many onlookers that had by now gathered (even sounding the air raid siren). Keyes reboarded the LB and instructed the tug to take up a station whilst the destroyer "Myngs" positioned itself to launch the torpedo.

The account only mentions one torpedo being fired.
++

My comments:

The account looks to have been a little 'sensationalised' and I wonder a little at the accuracy. The Captain writing the article at first mentions the coaling, but then repeatedly says that there was smoke/gas from the burning fuel oil!
The publication dates from the late 1930's, I do not know who would have been readily available to criticise the passage for inaccuracies, but published it was. The story finishes with the salving of the hulk and the removal of the remains of some 57 crew who were buried at Gillingham.

I could not quickly find reference to a destroyer named Myngs in WW1 but there was a WW2 destroyer of that name. Perhaps a pal can check out the Myngs in WW1, if they have suitable reference sources?

Another episode made me doubt the article - it was said that Keyes enquired if the Lady Brassey carried any oxy-acetylene equipment, so as to try and cut a hole in the Glatton at the waterline! I doubt this, since obviously it would have taken time to cut a sufficient hole to sink the ship promptly, and secondly the Glatton was protected by anti-torpedo bulges - which even the article mentions when showing pictures of the salvage....

My conclusion therefore was that the article was sensationalised, and I cannot judge which parts are true and which might not be. That said I feel guilty in criticising such a tragic matter, however it was reported.

Ian

Myngs was a Sixth Flotilla destroyer, attached to the Dover Patrol from 5 March 1917 (Appendix to Vol 2 of Admiral Bacon's "Dover Patrol 1915-1917").

Lady Brassey was the DP's principal salvage tug and, in Admiral Bacon's time, at least, was always skippered by his most experienced and trusted tug captain.

The account of Keyes dashing hither, thither, and yon sounds characteristic and credible.

The date errors mentioned above have been corrected.

Thanks very much for that, Ian. Much appreciated. Doesn't say one way or the other about casualties still aboard when she was torpedoed, does it. I take your point about the anomalies in some of the details of the report. As "per ardua per mare per terram" pointed out, the Court of Enquiry proceedings are available so perhaps the answer is to be found there. I did a quick search of Bookfinder and see that Sir Roger Keyes wrote a book entitled "Memoirs Scapa Flow to the Dover Straits 1916-1918" - perhaps he made some mention of the loss. I will likely follow this up at some point in the future.

regards,
Martin






That's great. Thanks for doing that, Terry.

Martin

Martin

Sorry if I did not make it clear - yes the article did indeed report that there were casualties still on board. I left out the lurid bits about the screams/etc in my precis. But the whole sad story revovled around the fact that Keyes had to decide on torpedoing the vessel despite knowing there were men still on board.

Ian

Great that the post has also been useful in date ammendments, cheers all

During the convertion to a monitor, the boilers were converted to dual coal-oil-firing. She could carry 364 tons of coal and 171 tons of fuel oil. The possibility of burning oil is therefore quite likely correct.

Regards
Bob

Are you only looking for those who died on the day of the explosion?
I have come across a Cook's Mate, H G King, who served on the H.M.S. 'Glatton' and who died on 21/09/1918, and is buried in Wells cemetery. I assume he died of wounds received on the day of the explosion.
Orson

Thanks very much, Bob. Appreciated. It's amazing the depth of knowledge on this forum.

cheers,
Martin

Thanks, Orson. Your contribution is welcome. I've add his name to the casualty list that appears earlier in this thread. Yes, seems that he survived the initial explosion but was wounded and succumbed to his injuries days later. This may be the missing casualty to explain why The Times reported 80 casualties and I could only find 79. Or there may be others that are still to be found..? It would be made easier if the CWGC allowed searching on unit/ship.

cheers,
Martin

Martin,

See post #2. I searched Glatton using Geoff's very wonderful search engine and got 98 hits. It will do the ship search (of the CWGC database) that CWGC's own search engine will not. Just put Glatton into the 'unit text' box. http://www.hut-six.co.uk

Mick

Sorry and thanks, Mick. I came into the thread further down and somehow missed your post. I think I came across Geoff's search page once previously, but had forgotten about it (now bookmarked). You get 98 hits on Glatton. I only get 73. Are you doing anything else before kicking off the search?

No, Martin. When I searched on Glatton at the time I wrote post #2, I got 98 returns — now, like you, I get only 73. No idea why, I'm afraid — on both occasions I entered the single search term Glatton in the 'unit text' box.

That's strange, Mick. You know, I think your figure of 98 (when you searched originally) is probably closer to the mark than 80. I've just cross-checked the 73 names from Geoff's site search with the names already listed above and there are 13 additional names (see below). That makes a total of 93 so far, so suspect there are probably another 5 hiding somewhere.

BELL, NORMAN, Stoker 2nd Class, d.27/09/1918, HORDEN (THORPE ROAD) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=354570

BELLAMY, J., Private (R.M.L.I.), d.17/09/1918, LEYTONSTONE (ST. PATRICK'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=355994

GATENBY, JOHN WILLIAM, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, FULFORD CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=407959

GILLIVER, JAMES, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.16/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365553

GLOVER, MAURICE JOHN, Warrant Schoolmaster, d.22/09/1918, DARESBURY (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2747676

GRUNDY, L. E. F., Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=362350

HARFIELD, A. H., Leading Stoker, d.18/09/1918, HOOK (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2758263

LACKEY, JOSEPH THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, CAMBERWELL OLD CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=382147

LLOYD, EDWARD JOHN, Leading Signalman, d.29/09/1918, BANDON HILL CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=399991

LOCKIE, THOMAS CORBETT, Engineer Lieutenant, d.07/10/1918, PEEBLES CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=664207

McCLAY, DAVID SUGDEN, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, BRADFORD (UNDERCLIFFE) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=411526

NELSON, W. H., Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, DEAL CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365324

POPE, CHARLES, Leading Stoker, d.19/09/1918, HENDON CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=388176


Two of these are a number of days after the date of the explosion (16/09/1918), Norman Bell and Edward Lloyd, 11 and 13 days respectively. I wonder if these were as a result of injuries from the explosion or some other cause.

Thanks.
Martin

p.s. Just a guess but the "H" in W. H. Nelson may be Horatio, for obvious reasons. Coincidentally, I seem to recall noticing a William Horatio Nelson in a list recently (not sure if it was The Times or London Gazette).

Not sure if you got this chap:

Name: KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR
Initials: S A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Able Seaman
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
Unit Text: H.M.S. "Glatton."
Age: 31
Date of Death: 19/09/1918
Service No: 229853
Additional information: Son of Mrs. Ellen King, of 1, Trafalgar Terrace, Abbey Rd., Merton.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: E. 7. 10.
Cemetery: MERTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD


Ian

+

There's a link there between Ian's post and the previous one — Admiral Nelson's pew and funeral hatchments are preserved at St Mary's, Merton. It's no distance from here and I could get a pic of Samuel King's headstone, if wanted.

Mick

No we hadn't, Ian. We have H. G. KING, Cook's Mate, but not Samuel. Thanks for that. I think I need to consolidate the lists of previous posts into one complete (?) list for clarity. Or perhaps upload it as a text file attachment. Can anyone tell me if forum attachments get crawled by the Google "spider", or only the message text?

regards,
Martin

I'm somewhat surprised that noone else has mentioned what actually happened on 16th September, 1918 yet.

An explosion occurred on "Glatton" at about 18.15 in the evening, followed by fierce burning amidships. As mentioned in the article the "Lady Brassey" went alongside to try and extinguish the fire, other boats assisting. The fire in the midship 6-inch magazine was out of control, as seen by Keyes and Commander Diggle when they boarded via the "Lady Brassey". Keyes and Diggle, working from the forecastle were able to get the forward magazines flooded but the fire blocked the way to the aft flooding controls located on the main deck. The seacocks for the rear of the ship were also unreachable.

Keyes' options were governed by the fact that the ammunition ship "Gransha" lay in the next berth 150 yards away. He boarded the destroyer "Cossack" and had her fire an 18-inch torpedo in "Glatton", which as Bob Henneman mentioned failed to fire due to the safety mechanism - the distance being too close. At 19.40 "Cossack" tried again, and blew a hole in the starboard bulge. This was inadequate and Keyes then boarded "Myngs", which at 20.15 delivered two torpedoes into "Glatton's" side and keeled over to starboard, almost turtle at 148° to the vertical.

Ian Buxton, whose excellent "Big Gun Monitors" I am quoting, gives the casualty list at;
1 Officer and 59 men missing.
124 injured of whom 19 died on injuries.
A total of 79 dead.

"Glatton" lay in Dover Harbour for so long because the Admiralty apparently did not have the salvage equipment to do the job. Every salvage firm it tried either refused or quoted an extortionate sum. Eventually Captain John Iron, the Dover Harbourmaster offered to do the job and work commenced in May, 1925 and the ship was raised in March, 1926. The hulk was then beached at the north-eastern end of the harbour and demolition completed in 1927.

Simon

If anyone wants a photo of the Glatton's memorial in Woodlands Cemetery, Gillingham just email me.

Mick,

On the weekend 5/6 January I had to upgrade the search engine server memory since it was running low. Two of the search engine index files did not successfully ftp copy (stopped somewhere in 'S'). This would explain the low result given between that time and when this error was corrected a few days ago.

cheers,

Geoff

Many thanks, Geoff - back to 98 now. Your extraordinarily wonderful search engine is brilliant for exploring the enormous mass of the Army, but when it comes to ships, it's unparalleled. I just searched the name of a tiny armed fishing smack and found all the members of her crew. It's apparent from another thread on war grave photography projects that CWGC is now willing to partner with specialists who can add value to their database, and I think the time has surely come to invite them to host your engine on their servers.

Mick

Thanks, Geoff. I found the four I was missing.

For the record, the total casualties for HMS Glatton were 98, not the 80 quoted in The Times. Here's the consolidated list. Unless noted otherwise, casualties listed below are RN, date of death 16/09/1918 and final resting place the Gillingham (Woodlands) Cemetery.


ALFORD, ALFRED, Petty Officer Stoker
ALLANTON, GEORGE, Ordinary Seaman
AMES, WILLIAM, Stoker 1st Class
ANDREWS, F. W. (Frederick William), Master at Arms, d.03/10/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY
AYLING, H. F., Petty Officer Stoker, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY
BAKER, ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class
BALCOMBE, JAMES, Chief Gunner, d.18/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY
BARLOW, BERTRAM, Able Seaman
BEATTY, ALFRED, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
BELL, NORMAN, Stoker 2nd Class, d.27/09/1918, HORDEN (THORPE ROAD) CEMETERY
BELLAMY, J., Private (R.M.L.I.), d.17/09/1918, LEYTONSTONE (ST. PATRICK'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY
BENNETT, WILLIAM STEPHEN, Stoker 1st Class
BENSON, JOHN WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class
BOYLAND, CHARLES, Private, Royal Marine Light Infantry, d.02/10/1918, HEMYOCK CEMETERY
BRIDGE, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class
BROWN, WILLIAM THOMAS, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
CARD, WALTER ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class
CAVE, HENRY, Petty Officer Stoker
CLIFTON, ROBERT, Ordinary Seaman
COPP, WILLIAM JACOB, Petty Officer
COSTELLO (aka SNOWBALL), ROBERT, Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
COWDREY, CHARLES, Chief Engine Room Artificer
CURT, ALBERT, Ordinary Seaman
DICKSON, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class
DREW, REGINALD JAMES BLAKENEY, Lieut-Commander
GATENBY, JOHN WILLIAM, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, FULFORD CEMETERY
GENEE (aka GENCE), RAPHAEL AUGUSTE, Petty Officer Stoker
GILLIVER, JAMES, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.16/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
GLOVER, MAURICE JOHN, Warrant Schoolmaster, d.22/09/1918, DARESBURY (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD
GREENWOOD, RALPH DUKE, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
GROVE, WILLIAM GEORGE, Stoker 1st Class
GRUNDY, L. E. F., Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY
HARDEN, PERCIVAL JACK ROBERTS, Ordinary Seaman
HARDEN, WILLIAM FREDERICK, Able Seaman, RNVR
HARFIELD, A. H., Leading Stoker, d.18/09/1918, HOOK (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD
HEATH, CHARLES BENJAMIN, Stoker 1st Class
HENSHAW, ALBERT HAROLD, Cook's Mate, d.19/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY
HILL, ALFRED HERBERT, Officer's Cook 1st Class
HOWARD, CHARLES, Stoker 1st Class
JOHNS, RICHARD, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.21/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (EASTNEY OR HIGHLAND ROAD) CEMETERY
JOHNSON, ALFRED JOSEPH, Stoker 1st Class
JONES, WILLIAM TREVOR, Stoker 1st Class
KING, H. G., Cook's Mate, d.21/09/1918, WELLS CEMETERY
KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR, Able Seaman, d.19/09/1918, MERTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD
KNAPP, EDWIN, Stoker 1st Class
KNIGHT, ROBERT, Stoker 1st Class
LACKEY, JOSEPH THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, CAMBERWELL OLD CEMETERY
LAKE, WALTER, Petty Officer
LLOYD, EDWARD JOHN, Leading Signalman, d.29/09/1918, BANDON HILL CEMETERY
LOCKIE, THOMAS CORBETT, Engineer Lieutenant, d.07/10/1918, PEEBLES CEMETERY
MACKIE, THOMAS BREBNER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
MAKIN, CHARLES THOMAS, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
MARTIN, A. K. (Arthur Kenneth), Officer's Cook 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY
MARTIN, PETER, Petty Officer
MCCLAY, DAVID SUGDEN, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, BRADFORD (UNDERCLIFFE) CEMETERY
MILLER, FREDERICK JOHN, Stoker 1st Class
MILLS, THOMAS RICHARD, Stoker 1st Class
MOGER, CHARLES WILLIAM, Private, R.M.L.I.
MOTTRAM, ALFRED HENRY, Leading Stoker
NELSON, W. H., Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, DEAL CEMETERY
NETTLESHIP, WILLIAM, Stoker 2nd Class
ODDY, J. H. (John Haralio), Leading Cooks Mate, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY
OWEN, GEORGE ARTHUR, Chief Petty Officer
POPE, CHARLES, Leading Stoker, d.19/09/1918, HENDON CEMETERY
RHODES, FRANK, Shipwright 2nd Class
ROBSON, GEORGE COLLINGWOOD, Stoker 1st Class
ROWE, R. W., Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DALTON-LE-DALE (HOLY TRINITY) CHURCHYARD
SAVE, G. A., Carpenter's Crew, d.17/09/1918, FULHAM PALACE ROAD CEMETERY
SCORER, THOMAS, Stoker 2nd Class
SHADWELL, FREDERICK WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class
SHAW, ALFRED BERNARD, 3rd Class Waiter
SIMPSON, FREDERICK WALTER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class
SMALL, MARTIN, Stoker 2nd Class
SMITH, THOMPSON, Stoker 2nd Class
SOLLERS, PERCY, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class, d.17/09/1918, LLANTILIO PERTHOLEY (ST. TEILO) CHURCHYARD
SPENCE, JOSEPH, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY
SPOONER, ALBERT HENRY, Able Seaman, d.26/09/1918, FUNTINGTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD
STAMP, TOM, Petty Officer Stoker
STARKEY, CHARLIE AGUSTA, Petty Officer Stoker
STENSON, WALTER, Stoker 1st Class
STOKER, J., Stoker 1st Class, d.25/09/1918, SUNDERLAND (MERE KNOLLS) CEMETERY
STUBBS, GEORGE, Stoker 2nd Class
SULLIVAN, MICHAEL, Shipwright 2nd Class
TAYLOR, GEORGE HENRY, Stoker 1st Class
VASS, A. S., Able Seaman, d.18/09/1918, FLEET (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD
VAUGHAN, C. H., Plumber's Mate, d.28/09/1918, WREXHAM CEMETERY
WARWICK, L. C., Signal Boy, d.19/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY
WAUGH, MATTHEW, Stoker 2nd Class
WEIR, ROBERT, Able Seaman, d.16/09/1918, DALZIEL (AIRBLES) CEMETERY
WELLS, R., Leading Stoker, d.23/09/1918, EFFINGHAM (ST. LAURENCE) CHURCHYARD
WHITE, R. G. (Robert George), Leading Stoker, d.17/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY
WHITINGTON, JOHN JAMES, Boy Servant
WILDING, STANLEY EDGENTON, Signalman, RNVR, d.21/09/1918, CITY OF LONDON CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM, MANOR PARK
WILKINSON, ERNEST WALTER, Stoker 1st Class, d.27/09/1918, FARNHAM (UPPER HALE) CEMETERY
WILLS, JOHN, Stoker 2nd Class
WINSTONE, ALBERT EDWARD, Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, BECKENHAM CREMATORIUM AND CEMETERY
WRAY, ROBERT MCGREGOR, Leading Stoker
YEWMAN, ALEXANDER, Able Seaman, d.17.09/1918, CITY OF LONDON AND TOWER HAMLETS CEMETERY


regards,
Martin

My apologies for only just finding this thread.

Admiralty death records show a total of 98 casualties, including 39 that died later from wounds, and that 2 men served under aliases.

If anyone wants a copy to compare with Martin's send me an email address, because Excel files will not go thro' the forum mail system.

Best wishes
David

For the record a old friend of mine has the wooden wheel from Glatton at his home in Crowborough. 6 foot across in great condition.
His father who ran a resturant in Folkestone in the 50's and bought it there from a antique shop.
Peter

That would be an exceptional piece of history to own.

Harley

Hi, i thought i would join and add a picture of the memorial.



Was there a reason the casualties were sent to Gillingham? I would have assumed they would have been buried in Dover!