What has just struck me is how few Americans ae members of this site. The majority of us are British, we have a hell of a lot of Austrailians and we even have our fair share of germans and canadians.

I know that this site is focused mainly on the british army, but youd think americans would be here too, looking for advice. There cant be that many forums devoted to research on WW1.

I mean do Americans not see or feel ww1 as we do, cos they didnt lose as many men, or that not very town and community in america felt the effects of the war, they dont have memorials in every village and church to the men who died in that war, and so perhaps people arent as interested in the war. i mean they were only in it for a year...they didnt have the full 4 years of horror in the trenches.

Joe

This is slowly changing. The Americans suffered pretty bad casualties as attacking troops who wanted to proove themselves to the ole Europeans including both Allies and enemies! Moreover their monetary contributions were out of all proportion to their military commitments and included huge post-war economic props especially to Germany.
John

Hello Joe,

A few things:

No, I don't think we don't feel about the war the same as you do in the UK. Absolutely not. It was totally different experience for the country. Our Civil War and WWII are much more imprinted the "American psyche" (whatever that may be).

I would imagine that most Americans looking to learn about family members do it via the pretty hefty genealogical organizations and website that can be found in the US. Anyone searching via google or a search engine would probably come across this site, but quicky see that 95% of the topics are related to the British forces.

Australians and Canadians are a pretty obvious matchup for the forum. There aren't a lot of Germans active here. A vast majority of the posts made related to the Germans are made by forum pals from countries other than Germany. Egbert is an exception (and a welcome one).

The forum is pretty focused, and I'm not surprised there is not a lot of American participation here.

Paul

Paul, I think you are right: the Great War is not imprinted on the American psyche in the same way as the Civil War, WW2 or even the Viet Nam war. And, in my simple mind, it comes down to casualties. Canada, with one tenth the population, had more killed in action than did the U.S. Like the U.K. and undoubtedly many other countries, Canada has monuments to its Great War dead in every little town and village. And on almost all of these monuments, the Great War dead outnumber the dead from WW2. The Great War was instrumental in Canada assuming sovereignty and a greater role in world affairs. Not so the U.S. The war came and it went, soon to be completely subsumed by the even greater conflict twenty years later.

I'm married to an American girl whose Grandfather served in WWI. One of our American pals on here helped me find out a few details of his service life. I've mentioned it before that her family emigrated from Germany and members of her extended family who remained there served with the Kaiser's army.

During my years in the USA, there was precious little taught about American participation in the war. Al is certainly right in what he says about WWII and the American Civil War. I've visited municipal cemeteries in small towns in Pennsylvania and New York and the only memorials I've seen to the WWI dead are inscriptions on individual gravestones. Usually, the veteran buried there survived the war but his service was still recorded. Many cities have erected Vietnam memorials too, but this is quite understandable as the conflict is within living memory.

US television shows regular programmes about WWII and much was written in 2005 about the "greatest generation". Certain aspects of WWI are fairly well-known, such as the life and death of Manfred von Richthofen and the exploits of Eddie Rickenbacker but I haven't seen a whole lot more about the war in general. Public Television aired "The Great War" when I was there, but the ratings were quite poor. Sad really.

If you are interested in American involvement in WW1.

The American Doughboy Society publish a quarterly Newsletter. The articles are first rate. It is only available by subscription.


If you pm me I will give you more details

Alexandria, Virginia where I grew up had a Great War Whippet tank at its railroad station and my step-grandfather living in San Rafael, California was a veteran of the 17th London. Some towns and cities have Great War memorials or statues and many of our army posts were founded in '17-'18.

Although we do not have many US Pals, those we do have tend to make very good contributions to the forum. Quality rather than quantity, I suppose.

Joe, As one of the 'few' Americans on the site there are probably a number of reasons why it is not as well known or even popular as in other countries. I feel that our limited involvement is a major factor as is the American experience in the Civil War, WWII and Vietnam as mentioned by others already. The Korean War is becoming well known through new documentary shows and even a few memorials are showing up for this conflict as well.

There are a large number of memorial plaques to WW1 in my area, statues, school memorials to the men who fought and died, etc. There was even a new memorial dedicated a few years back to the war in Auburn (they used a picture of a British soldier as the model so the memorial is a bit flawed as the U.S. involvement was the goal).

When I was in school many decades ago the war was covered in about 1 - 1 1/2 sessions or less than 3 hours. Not much when you consider the consequences of the war. WWII was covered in greater detail as was the rise of communism, etc.

Simply speaking it seems that few Americans know much about it at all if my schooling is an example of the lack of education on this subject. It did dominate issues and popular culture up through the 1930's and many towns and villages boast long forgotten memorials, streets named after generals. I lived near Pershing Avenue and Foch Avenue as well. There are many more in my part of the world as well.

If you want to see the Great War memorial in Syracuse, N.Y. you have to drive to a run down portion of the city, look through overgrown shrubs and trees for a large statue that is badly in need of maintenance. It lies just next to the Spanish-American War statue. Both are visited less than once a year I would bet.

My interest lies in the German Army for many reasons I will not go into at the present. I had relatives in three armies including some from Marbach am Neckar in Württemberg. I do have the records, photos and service details along with memorabilia from relatives who served in the U.S. Army and my wife's side as well including items left behind by Corporal Otto E.J. Ernst, 165th U.S. Infantry who was killed in action near the Ourq River in July 1918.

Most of my friends know more about sports figures than history. Many of the shows produced in England on the war never make it here or take years to show up. Movies on the war are 'dumbed' down and place names are changed to fit them into U.S. experiences and not the original French and British locations simply because the average American would not know what they were talking about otherwise.

All I can do is to educate my friends about the events from the war. My children are well versed in the history of the war from all sides simply by reading through my library and listening to my stories. etc.

Finally, this site does focus the majority of the discussions on the British experience from what I can see. The few German members have mostly left or curtailed their involvement for a number of reasons including some personal attacks by other members for daring to voice a different opinion from the other side.

When I talked in London a few years back many people were happy to hear a different point of view while others, some of my co-speakers gave me the impression they were annoyed that there was any discussion of the German side at all. It would seem that the war was fought from only one point of view and the people in field grey were just figments of imagination as they rarely were given much space in any book.

I do not think this forum could handle several different aspects of the war such as the U.S. involvement in any detail. I feel it would break down into two or more distinct sub-forums and there would be little interaction. There are other forums but none seem to reach the same level of interest or size as this one.

I wonder if there is a way to determine just how many members are from each country, it would be interesting to see.

Ralph

The handyman who used to do odd jobs at my family's summer cabin at Green Lake, Maine was a shell shock casualty in the Great War. Percy didn't like crowds of people and he avoided towns and cities. The stress of combat probably made a pre-existing medical condition worse.

Ralph wrote:

"...Finally, this site does focus the majority of the discussions on the British experience from what I can see. The few German members have mostly left or curtailed their involvement for a number of reasons including some personal attacks by other members for daring to voice a different opinion from the other side..."


Amen. This is unfortunately all too true.


Though I hesitated to mention this in my initial repsonse, and directly addressing the original poster's question, sadly I know that some US members have also been put off by unconsidered remarks made here about American participation in the both world wars and the American forces in general. I know of more than one that have left this forum or, as you put it Ralph, curtailed their involvement.

I agree it would be interesting to know active membership by nationality, just for the purposes of surveying participation.

Paul

I used to live in San Rafael. The only memorial I know of there is on the Avenue of the Flags near to the Marin Civic Center. WWI is commemorated on it.

My dad was a 1943 graduate of San Rafael High School and I was born there in 1952. There was a war memorial downtown that used to list veterans by name (dad's name was on it for WW II) but the names were taken off it because of the frequent additions and revisions that were required.

As a relative newbie, I was honestly unaware of this. I find it very sad. The 1.8 million dead from Germany were as much victims of the human frailty and stupidity of that time as my great Uncle who was killed in 1918. Sad that people cannot see the other side.

I was saddened to read that, in the past, Forum members from Germany had been attacked in any way for their views. I have been a member for only a few months now but have had little cause to feel that any of the current active members would act in such a way. One active German member - Fritz - has found the Forum very useful and I have certainly found a new friend there. Maybe the work of Jack Sheldon in putting the German side of many of the more important parts of the war will do much to balance the views of enthusiasts on the Forum should that be required.

Jim

Personal attacks are absolutely despicable.
If a Pal decides to leave or curtail their actvity because their research needs are not met then that's fine:

Re: Pro British slant ..(OK, there have been management" changes,) former overall supreme commander Chris Baker does say that the site will focus on the British side but that is meant in no way to be disrepsectful to others.

However, if a Pal is left feeling forced to leave because of personal attacks; that is not fine. It is downright low.

I've also noticed with saddness that some French amis have not been around in a while, Frimouss62 and Gerboise, to whom I spoke to / exchanged pm's about public transport in Arras - Lens etc.

Finally Joe, sorry for going Off T. I can only echo previous posts re Civil & 2nd World Wars. I visited Washington DC in March 2007. Lots of Civil War statues, WW2 monuments. But, let us never forget the sacrifice that young Americans made in WW1; over 300,000 killed or wounded in a very short period of time.

Kind regards

I agree that the German dead were victims of human frailty and stupidity, and that the frailty and stupidity in question wasn't solely a German facet - the allies certainly had their moments. But let's be clear about this - many people can "see" the "other side's" point of view, but sometimes strongly dislike what they "see".

There have been rare occasions on this forum when the "other side's" point of view has described the German war machine of WW1 as being a misunderstood and much maligned force, that all the bad feeling came from allied propaganda (both contemporaneous and on-going) - in other words, a blatant attempt to absolve the German army, government and people of any culpability at all. This, of course, is the same line Hitler used to bring the pot once more to the boil - and that point of view, my friends, should be attacked whenever and wherever it surfaces.

Germany was not the sole instigator of WW1, but it was by a long way the prime mover - and certainly not the prime victim as some would still attempt to portray (until they fell on their own sword, of course - but still failed to learn the lesson).



Cheers-salesie.

There's a small museum in Petaluma that has some interesting artefacts in it, many from the Great War. They have some items of kit, insignia and some deactivated hand grenades. Much of the stuff is WWII era though. I used to dock my boat at Loch Lomond, just up the road from SR High. Did you ever go out to Angel Island? There's some graffiti on the walls in one of the buildings put there by captured German U-Boat men that may date back to WWI?

Some Pals will know that I have a particular interest in the German side of the war. Enough to brush up my German and send me slowly plodding through German printed works. I can only remember one dispute involving German forumites which turned nasty. That revolved around the very vexed question of Louvain. Things were said on both sides which should not have been. Nothing worse than has been said on other topics. This is an open forum and contributers are free to express their views within very broad guidelines. The moderators are generally on the ball to stop personal abuse and for the rest, we must agree to differ.

No, I don't think I've been on Angel Island. I grew up in the Virginia suburbs of Washington DC even though I'm a fourth-generation Californian with roots there going back to 1850. I was stationed at Fort Ord near Monterey in '82-'84. I miss the sourdough French bread and dry Italian sausages.

Oh my, I can see where this is going.

Joe you may get some of the answers to your original question (which seems to have been left by the wayside) before this thead is over, as well as some of clear demonstrations of some of the things we've cited as the reasons for overall lack of foreign participation here.

I'm out of this thread...

Paul

Wait a minute, Paul, my earlier posts in the thread were about the American experience of the Great War. By the way, it's been 27 years since I bought my Swiss army knife at the U.S. Army Wiesbaden sports center.

If anyone has no regard for the 'other side of the lines' they are missing half the story.
Whether that story comes from USA or anything else is immaterial.
Yeah - site is predom Brit. but without the spike helmet heads out there we'd lose a lot.

Paul Hed .. get back in immediately!

So do I, that and Anchor Steam beer. I used to go to Cafe Trieste in North Beach in San Francsico where the owner kept old photos of Caruso on the wall and a juke box full of opera arias. Good coffee too.

I know that some men from the San Rafael area went to was between 1917 and 1918 but I don't know if they were part of a locally-raised regiment or National Guard unit. Do you know?

Some guys would have volunteered for the regular army, others would have been conscripted/drafted, and others would have joined the California National Guard. Anchor Steam Beer is good stuff, my dad used to talk about it.

'Finally Joe, sorry for going Off T. I can only echo previous posts re Civil & 2nd World Wars. I visited Washington DC in March 2007. Lots of Civil War statues, WW2 monuments. But, let us never forget the sacrifice that young Americans made in WW1; over 300,000 killed or wounded in a very short period of time.'

There is one monument to the Great War on the National Mall but it is hidden in the woods and difficult to see or find. On the other hand the new WWII monument is immense.

Ralph

The Tomb of the Unknowns is in Arlington National Cemetery across the river from Washington DC on Robert E. Lee's wife's old estate. The Tomb was established in the early 1920s with the interrment of our Great War unknown soldier. Nearly all of our generals and admirals in World War II had Great War experience; vice president and later President Harry S. Truman was in combat as well. How much is enough to satisfy you guys?

Fortunately for me, I'm as interested (probably more so since theirs was longer and more varied) in the European/British/Commonwealth Forces experience in the War as the American. Therefore, I always find ready topics of interest regarding those forces whenever I sign on. I understand that the Forum is overwhelmingly "other than American" in membership and interest. Moreover, it is experience that has made me more circumspect about posting topics and/or sharing information about America in the War. For example, in March 2006, I posted a thread about a KIA American Doughboy, Carl Abramson, whose body was being repatriated home to Worcester, Mass., for burial on the week of Christmas 1921. It was what I thought an interesting, very poignant story, with several photos. Although it was read numerous times the first week, no one replied so I brought it back to the top after 10 days--still not worthy of comment and it died; then, since it had a Christmas connection, I brought it back to the top at Christmas '06--still no replies; finally, I brought it back to the top last December '07, and got two replies--one British, one Aussie. To date, there have been 419 views of the thread, and two members have commented on it. Not a very good average you will agree.

With this said, I do plan to post a thread this week regarding a KIA Doughboy whose parents were English immigrants.

Chris

Chris, loyalties get divided up, you and I are both American citizens with relatives who fought for the old Confederacy. Since that time my great-grandfather, my father and myself have been in the U.S. Army. I also have Revolutionary War and War of 1812 ancestors. There is circumstantial evidence that a Hessian relative of mine from Wetzlar, Hessen was a leutnant of grenadiers who fought under contract for the British side during our revolution. My dad's division drove by the town of Wetzlar in '45 and I was stationed in the next town over from there, Giessen, in '78-'81. On this forum I had a nice thread with Egbert, a Luftwaffe officer, who lives in Germany--Egbert lives in Siegburg, which is where my dad went into combat in 1945. We had a thread about what happened there way back when but it was never unfriendly.

One of the unique things about Americans is the varied ancestry of many of us. I am a product of German, Irish and English ancestors, my wife is Irish, German, English and Scottish. Few if any Americans I know can state they come from one particular country with no other outside influences.

It gives one a different view of events when you had relatives on both sides of a conflict. My good friend has a grandfather who was captured at or near Mons while in the German army, a cousin who died in a plane crash while training in the Luftwaffe yet his father was in the U.S. Army in WWII. A friend from years back lost 5 brothers in U-boats and the Luftwaffe while another friend served in the Italian paratroopers, they were now U.S. citizens.

I interviewed one veteran for a claim and asked if he was wounded in the military. He was wounded in a tank battle in France. Another man we had interviewed earlier was also wounded in a tank battle in France in the same town and the same day. One was in a Sherman, one was in a Tiger tank. I went to college with a friend who lost a cousin in June 1941 on the first day of the invasion of Russia, bad luck for him it.

What can be said is it is a country or almost limitless mixes and matches. I recall a bog man was found in Britain and when DNA was tested they found a relative living in the same town. That is something not found here, we move far too often and then throw in millions of legal and illegal immigrants and you get quite a mix.

What I do see on the forum is that we all have an interest in the Western Front, British mostly but also German and some French lately. They all interact, they all rely upon the other for a full story. I also know there are always two or more points of view on a subject so it is disappointing to see personal attacks and poor attitudes with some members. I checked one in particular and it appears he is gone. I for one will not miss him.

I too have had threads I thought should elicit some comment or discussion simply die on the vine while others that are useless nonsense seem to live on forever. I would expect more people here (U.S.) would find this spot interesting if more knew of it. I doubt it has widespread publicity and some find it by stumbling across it.

I have no issues with the majority of the forum being British oriented. It is something that fits into my research like a hand and a glove. I cannot research or explain the German side without knowing what the 'enemy' was doing.

As an aside, I believe it was the concept that my speech in London mentioned the 'enemy', the British in my case, was one aspect that was not well received. After all, it is just a term.

All said, I hope there is more American involvement in the future. Too bad there is no way to advertise it in schools, etc. I believe some would like to participate and we need younger members to keep things going when the older of us lose our memories or just fade away.

Just my thoughts,

Ralph

Chums...

I'm all for every beligerant nation of the Great War to participate on an equal footing within this forum. The more the better, and as a result, we'll see a more balanced view of the situation.

I've lived here in the the USA for a few years now with my American born wife. I love both to bits, but what really does make my blood boil, is a left over from America's isolationist attitude. That underlying point is everywhere, but I grit my teeth and try to explain in the best democratick way possible just why it irates individuals from over the other side of the Atlantic Ocean.. even now!

That 'Blood Boil' happens when I read or hear individuals mention that 'America won the Great War'.

I think that its actually that particular point which is why there are not that many active US members here in the forum. my wifes asks me every so often.. "Why is it that that particular phrase upsets you so?" Well, several times now, I have sat down with her family to explain just how intergrated Europe was with the Great War, and how the vast losses effected vertually every family in the UK. My own family on both sides lost seven members through enemy action. The French and Germans suffered just as heavily.

I don't blame the American's for their attitude in reference the Great War... just as we Brits are renowned for our 'Stiff upper lip under extreme advercity'... its how they are! I would not be living here if I did not feel comfortable. The real point I think, is that the average American of the time, was so happy to be helping their Ancesters countries, that they genuinly do feel that they did win the Great War. But not for themselves... for civilisation as a whole.

American's are gradually realising that the old isolationist attitudes have hurt others, including themselves, hence the attitudes they experiance against them when abroad. But they are beginning to come to terms with the realities of why they were sent over when they were, and how much Europe was near to a standstill.

America bled the same as europe, so come on 'Yank'... your more than welcome, and happily so!

Seph

I too hope that everyone on the forum participates on an equal footing. My wife is an American,and I have many friends there. The point of views of all are welcome.

That said, the forum is the forum of The Long Long Trail, the story of the British Army in WW1.

Well Guys what can I say,

It is sad indeed to hear of anybody leaving this wonderful forum, particularly through personal attack.

We desperately need information and points of view from every participant, whether from the US, Germany or anywhere else.

I personally believe the US is on the wrong tangent, say after WW2, but up until then, particularly in WW1 and WW2, our American allies were as one with the Brits and French.

As to our German colleagues, what would this forum be without them, cetainly very lopsided.

The input from our German and USA Pals is extremely important, and I would be more than pleased to see more and more join the forum and give the rest of us their ideas and information.

C'mon Pals we desperately need to be a forum where all gets a fair suck of the Sav, so to speak. and no one is attacked because of their views.

Just my thoughts

Nige

First off, I'm a very patriotic American who hates it when American celebrities go to Europe and badmouth the U.S. It makes my blood boil.

That being said...

I must admit we have a lousy education system here. Our public schools and most of our universities are about indoctrination rather than education. The main tenet of the political viewpoint that dominates our education system is that war waged by the United States is always wrong. Since war waged by America is always wrong, it's obscene to study it. Therefore, it's hardly mentioned in our schools. The more obscure the war, the less likely it is to be discussed. World War I is not even on most peoples' radar screens.

Several years ago, before I bought a scanner, I had a series of photos duplicated professionally. They were images of German Halberstadt CL.II ground-attack aircraft festooned with grenade racks, flares, extra ammo drums for the gunner's Parabellum, etc. The two men who worked in the store were fascinated and repelled. They were in their mid-twenties. One asked me what the images represented, and I told them they were German ground-attack aircraft from World War I.

"Huh," said the kid. "I knew there was a World War II, but I didn't know there was a World War I."

This statement is depressing on several levels, not least of which is the obvious question: Why, young fellow, do you suppose they call it "World War II"? Wouldn't logic decree that if there is a "two," there must have been a "one" before it?

A couple days ago a Seattle Times writer named Bruce Ramsey stated on his blog that Hitler's demands in regard to Czechoslovakia were not unreasonable.

This created a firestorm of controversy in the blogosphere, causing the man to quietly edit his piece. It now says:

It's becoming fashionable for university professors to claim that we shouldn't have responded militarily to the Japanese after Pearl Harbor. I've heard many, many college students say that the U.S. should never go to war under any circumstances whatsoever. Not for any reason. Ever.

So there's that, and on a more shallow level there's also the perceived "rinky-dink" nature of the technology of World War I, as opposed to the B-17, the Japanese Zero, the Tiger tank, and the U.S.S. Enterprise, for example. Also, the nature of the fighting--stalemated trench warfare--doesn't appeal to our national character. We prefer the drama and excitement of amphibious landings, area bombing, invasions, and so on.

World War I is too long ago, and we don't really know why we fought it. Most of us think of it--if we're even aware of it--as one of those "entangling alliance" things that we traditionally hate. We're isolationists at heart. We left Europe to get away from what we think of as "your" unending conflicts.

Ultimately it's a whole bunch of things. The reality is that the only war most of us know anything about is World War II. It's the lone exception. The vast majority of our war movies and war fiction are about World War II. All other conflicts are simply not acknowledged, except by a few of us.

I was able to take a number of courses in college related to different wars or warfare in general but that was the mid 1970's. To study war is to know war and hopefully find ways to prevent it. It also keeps the history of the country and people alive so more know where we have been and where we are going.

In the case of the U.S. in WWII Roosevelt declared war on Japan after pearl Harbor but not Germany. It was only when Germany declared war against the U.S. that we became involved in the European theater.

There was a great deal of discussion regarding Germany at the time and I believe that if Germany had not declared against the U.S. we would have remained out of it for some months to come.

There is still one portion of the U.S. still at war with Germany: The Iroquois Nation declared war with the U.S. and has not signed a treaty with Germany since so technically they are still at war according to my teachers from years back.

Ralph

Hi all,

In contributing my $0.02, as a born-and-raised American forum member, I would have to echo the sentiments expressed earlier that things do seem a bit focused on Great Britain, but I have already found my inquiries into German army life well received. Personally I have no issue with that, especially since half my family comes from the UK. My interest in and connection to the Great War is primarily through my paternal grandfather, who was in the German 14th Division, in the 43rd Field Artillery Regiment, 9th Battery. I am also interested in the u-boat war in WWI, as well as the ships of that era, for a couple of projects I am working on, some of which I hope to one day publish.

I am hoping as time passes to shift the balance of my contributions here from questions to answers as I learn more; again I must echo the sentiment expressed earlier that WWI largely got the brush-off in my educational experience. I am working to remedy this as we speak.

If I may be so bold as to put a theory out there, I suspect many American families have similar circumstances as I face: family who fought on both sides of the Great War at the same time. I would suspect not everyone is either 1) aware or 2)comfortable with that fact. I'm curious what others think about this?

Take care,

-Daniel

This happened to my wife's family but they were not in contact with those who took up arms for the Kaiser. The ones who emigrated to America became Americans and fought for her regardless of the enemy. I wish I could find out the names of the men who fought for Germany as I've often wondered if they faced family members across no-man's-land.

If anyone asks a question or posts an interesting fact on the forum, it will almost certainly get a response. The exceptions I have seen are when no one knows the answer, rare but not unknown, posted in the wrong subforum or with a misleading heading. I will bet a lot of cybercash that a question will not be ignored because it deals with the American involvement or is posted by an American. There is a subforum, not accessible by all, where American Pals contribute regularly and US subjects are discussed regularly,including and especially, ACW topics.

One reason for the apparent lack of interest in the Great War in the United States may be because, in recent years, Hollywood has shown little or no interest in the subject. In the 1930s, films such as Dawn Patrol and All Quite on the Western Front served to keep the 1914-18 conflict in the public eye. I suspect that, if a Titanic-style "blockbuster" should appear - perhaps showing Harrison Ford or Mel Gibson winning the war single-handed - there would be a tremendous burst of interest on the far side of the Atlantic.

No, I doubt it. Your message is also patronizing because it implies that Americans believe the nonsense they see on TV. People who study the Great War are readers of books, not watchers of TV.

Sadly, some of the US awareness of the Great War seems to be fading ever more. The nearest big town to me, Williston, North Dakota, had a bronze doughboy memorial in a park near the train depot for many years. Recently, it's been removed, and nobody seems to know where it went. With the high price of metals, it wouldn't surprise me if the city council sold it for scrap.

As far as my participation in this forum, I knew from the beginning that this was mainly a Brit focussed forum, one look at the website told me that. However, I've always received plenty of help with any of my questions, with no offense taken at any of the replies. I do like to see other countries represented, I've got a particular interest in the French army, for instance. And, as my paternal grandfather was the son of Belgian immigrants, anything to do with Belgium gets my attention. As that's the sector of the British army, I've gotten much useful information from this forum. I really hope to get to England and Europe some day, visit some of my relatives in Belgium, and tour the battlefields. I envy you lot that can get over to the various battle sites relatively easily. Maybe when the kids are grown and I retire....

Rod

Just noticed this interesting thread. Some random comments.

I remember in high school being taught that the most important battle of WW I was the St. Mihiel (sp?) battle, which was important in the context of it's role in turning back the German Spring Offensive, but really was on the scale of a skirmish, compared to other battles. I did not have a deep knowledge of WW I, but I had heard many of my father's stories, and I knew that he had been wounded at Verdun twice, and that Verdun was of course orders of magnitude larger than St. Mihiel. But I went to an excellent school, with excellent teaching in history. Now the situation is much more bleak. Studies have shown that a very large perportion of US high school students, given a map of the world and asked to point out Europe, will probably point to Antartica or Thailand. My wife's sister, in cooperation with other well-prepared parents, home schooled her four daughters, due to the dismal state of the Baltimore schools; one factor was the fact that the state of Maryland had actually dropped history as a topic in the public schools. Can you imagine!

The Louvain incident that I recall involved a dispute between a Brit and a Belgian. The Belgian, when I corresponded with him a bit, Had been an employee of the Belgian Senate, but had resigned to study WW I full-time; worked well in six languages; had, in a particular area, a literally world class collection of WW I histories, was a vice-chairman of an international society on military archeology; he had published two books on WW I, the one that I have was 400 pages published in Dutch, etc., etc. (Incidentally, at this time the Belgian was 26 years old, or thereabouts; quite acomplished for such a tender age.) This gentleman and the Brit got in a tussle about what actually happened in Louvain. Two points; the Belgian was a graduate of the University of Louvain, and I have to state my firmly-held and informed opinion that unless you know German, French, and hopefully Flemish/Dutch, you have little chance of actually finding out to any useful degree what actually happened in Belgium in 1914, aside from some generalities. 98% of what is written in English on the topic is utter propaganda, much of it written to order in what may be the largest single formal program of disinformation ever conducted in world history.

At any rate, the Brit, who had never indicated in many posts that he had any grasp of any language other than English, was so certain that he had the Revealed Truth on what actually happened in Louvain, and he so attacked the Belgian, that the latter probably has posted about three times in the last say four years, although, IMHO, he is one of the most capable students of WW I that has ever posted on this site. As a Belgian, and a student of Belgium, he certainly had a lot to offer to our discussions, especially when they swing to the topics of Belgium and Flanders.

I myself don't know of any Germans or German specialists driven off the Forum due to a spat on Louvain, but perhaps it was a different spat.

Although I am an American (actually a German/Dane/English-American), my focus on WW I might be considered to be that of a German, in interest and expertise, I find the vast, vast majority of the participants on this Forum to be quite gentlemanly, and even able to take my occasional Hunnish teasing in stride. Very infrequently I have come across Pals with an unpleasant mix of heightened ultra-nationalism and massive ignorance, but it is rare, and such types seem to soon drift off of the Forum (or adopt a new persona), probably due to the agreeable reason that they did not attract much of a cheering section on this Forum, and drifted off to ambush Pakis on darkened streets, or join some football holligan scrum.

There are Germans who participate or at least watch this forum, but tend not to reveal some rather exceptional qualifications. Some German Pals have received extremely offensive PMs, at least in part from Eastern Europe.

Bob Lembke

I was Googling the Chemical Warfare Service, and I found a graduate dissertation that has a paragraph on why Americans aren't that interested in World War I. I thought y'all might be interested to see what a newly minted Doctor of Philosophy(!) thinks.

Pershing's Right Hand: General James G. Harbord and the American Expeditionary Forces in the First World War, by Brian Fisher Neumann, submitted to the Office of Graduate Studies of Texas A&M University in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy, August 2006.


It's a huge PDF file with a URL that I couldn't get to work when I copied it, so if you want to read the dissertation, Google "Brian Fisher Neumann."

Doctor of Philosophy is a Ph.D, in this case in history.

D'oh!

I knew that, somewhere in the recesses of my skull.

I've never actually consciously thought of someone having a Ph.D as being a "Doctor of Philosophy," though of course he or she is.

When I read this dissertation I pictured a Jean-Paul Sartre type shrouded in pipe smoke, applying Navya-Nyaya fallibilism and disambiguation to the logistics problems of the American Expeditionary Force.

And I laughed hysterically!

"I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam."

Easily done, we all have those moments; and I love the image.

'Une Cartesian circle avec cafe, s'il vous plait' New French pastry????

Personally I feel that the contribution from many different countries only enriches the forum. Divergence of opinion is bound to occur, but I see it as a place to test out, and refine my own views by discussing and learning from others. My idea of hell is somewhere where everyone agrees with one another.

There was a recent US tv film 'The Lost Battalion' which was not without merit. Though reading remains my primary means of learning about the Great War, a number of feature films and documentaries such as The Great War and Hew Strachan's FWW bring the experience to life. Moving image representations across the decades also reflect current perceptions, and are used as vehicles to mould or alter public opinion (e.g. Sergeant York). Not all Hollywood products are devoid of value, and I look forward to other forum members pointing me in the direction of other works (not necessarily in English). I think that this area is a neglected field in the historiography of the Great War, but take comfort from the fact that there are members with similar interests. It is not taken as seriously as the study of FWW art, literature, poetry

Because you watch (or read) something, it need not follow that you have to agree with it. Some of those who read about the GW, though they remain discriminating, do go to the cinema, and watch television. Mark

I actually enjoyed Dawn Patrol. The version I saw had Errol Flynn, David Niven and Basil Rathbone.

The French film A Very Long Engagement (2004) is excellent, and Flyboys (2006) was very entertaining, if not exactly accurate. Regeneration (1997) was good, too.

None did any business in the U.S.