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Remembered Today:

Havrincourt

Then and Now .....90 years ago and today

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tootrock

Hi,

If you look at the plan of the cemetery on the CWGC website, (http://www.cwgc.org/plans/12-18/M002.GIF) it shows no stones in the position on the photograph, but it does say "Bernafay Wood North Cem. Memorial" behind the Great Cross. It shows special memorials just inside to the left of the cemetery entrance.

From the Cemetery description:

Montauban village was taken by the 30th and 18th Divisions on 1 July 1916 and it remained in Commonwealth hands until the end of March 1918. It was retaken on 25 August 1918 by the 7th Buffs and the 11th Royal Fusiliers of the 18th Division. The Bois De Bernafay is a pear-shaped wood close to the east end of Montauban village. It was taken on 3 and 4 July 1916 by the 9th (Scottish) Division. On 25 March 1918, in the retreat to the Ancre, the same Division was driven from the wood but recaptured it for a time. On 27 August 1918 it was finally regained by the 18th Division. The cemetery was begun by a dressing station in August 1916 and used as a front-line cemetery until the following April. It contained at the Armistice 284 burials but was then increased when graves were brought in from Bernafay Wood North Cemetery and from the battlefields immediately east of the wood. Bernafay Wood British Cemetery now contains 945 burials and commemorations of the First World War. 417 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to 11 soldiers known or believed to be buried here. Other special memorials commemorate 12 soldiers buried in Bernafay Wood North Cemetery whose graves were destroyed by shell fire. The cemetery was designed by Sir Herbert Baker.

Hope this helps,

Martin

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benghazi

The quote under the sausage vally photo, where can i find it please.

the then and now photos are great, must see if i can fined some round Richebourg.

Roger

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Havrincourt

Martin , Steve - Looks like a mystery solved there, the stones must have been marked as memorials to other last graves at the time

Roger, here is one of my favourites....hard to get this one all in

Blighty valley

post-10939-1228417459.jpg

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Havrincourt

..........One that you might have seen before........Hill 60

post-10939-1228504755.jpg

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stripeyman

Ypresman

Are you absolutly sure that this is looking up the lane ?

I have serious doubts, it could be looking down the lane.

Bob Grundy

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gracksnip

Bob

Take a very close look at the photo and the contour lines. Examine the photo's very carefully. Look at the lay of the land. This is.... as it was.

The 'before' pic is from the bottom looking up the lane, the 'after' exactly the same. I have been visiting the same area for 12 years...took all the comparisons...so know a tad bit about the area. Also it is from a very well known source.

Of course if you disagree, we will meet in the sunken lane and discuss this.....you bring your photos and I will bring mine............. ;)

I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before someone disagreed with my comparisons, even though they are 100% genuine from my library (& my travels), so I'm not going to post any more on this matter.

Should be able to tell based on the direction of attack. The men in the photo are positioned against one side of the ravine, so presumably the German artillery and MG fire was coming from that direction. Likely someone can comment on whether the "now" photo is positioned in the same way. FWIW Ypresman, I believe you having taken many of these photos myself. Once you've walked the ground and set up the shot, you're sure of the result.

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towisuk

RE:the 1st Lancs in Sunken Lane, I think you will find that the battalion were sheltering against the EAST side of the lane, the side that faced the German front lines, which means Malins shot was taken looking DOWN the Sunken Lane.

regards

Tom

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whittle5

great stuff, more please, julie

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Havrincourt

All good stuff.......a nice debate, we are all here to share our views and knowledge.....but back to the comparisons

Keep the photographs coming

Staying in Belgium............Essex Farm

post-10939-1228567044.jpg

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Chucka

I am facinated by these images, well done to all concerned. PLEASE PLEASE more photo's.

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Havrincourt

Thank you

This one taken from the wall at Dochy Farm, the white line in the old photograph marking where it is today

:rolleyes:

post-10939-1228583559.jpg

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norwood

Great Pics .............. Thank You

Mike

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stripeyman

Ypresman

Your original post 33 has the photo reversed, which matched to your 'now' one shows men, as viewed at the time,

on the west side of the Sunken Lane which is incorrect. However after bringing this to your notice you

seem to get a bit miffed.....12 years on the old WF does not mean you are right, I can triple that and then some

and I can get it wrong. In this case you are right but by posting the reversed 'then' it makes it look wrong.

I think that it is just bit of confusion in the illustrating department

To confirm this I quote the Bn War Diary "B Coy had to carefully select their exits as the bank is overhung

and lined with trees".

Well there it is, make of it what you will.

Bob Grundy

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willy

i agree having investigated malins shot many times and taken shots up and down the lane, i believe malins shot his down the lane, and also if you were sheltering from fire which side would you be sheltering?

the picture is one of the saddest i have ever seen, and to stand on the spot itself is a humbling experience.

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Guest tafski

A Great thread keep it up , more pics please

tafski

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Havrincourt

Great replies .......a very moving place to be, that moment captured then and we know the outcome - remember those lads

A combined Malins picture of the Hawthorn explosion

post-10939-1228652516.jpg

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stripeyman

Mr Havrincourt,

I like that superimposed image, very good...................

Bob

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whittle5

Hi,just came back to this post,where are the sunken lane photo's,they appear to have disapeared,i needed a copy of picture for a friend,any ideas where i might find one, thanks julie

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Chris Foster

Here you are Julie,

LF-1.jpg

regards

Chris

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whittle5

Cheers chris,your a star

regards julie

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Guest tafski

here we go Andy a few then pics wonder if anybody got the now ones

cemeteries21.jpg

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Guest tafski

essex farm

cemeteries38.jpg

poperinghe english cemetery

cemeteries36.jpg

ypres resevoir cemetery

cemeteries28.jpg

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Havrincourt

Great idea, I hope that we are all searching our trip photographs and can get some good comparisons

Chris nice close up picture

Here is a superb link that Paul Reed has supplied http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages...sujet_920_1.htm

I hope it works :huh: .... erm does not seem to work......anybody help? :blush:

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Havrincourt

In the meantime here is Chester Farm

post-10939-1228677457.jpg

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towisuk

I agree with you Chris, when I saw Yresman's original post the shot from Malins film shown, was looking DOWN the sunken lane. Whats with all this reversing of shots etc? The original posting which is the most common frame used from his film and the one that Yresman posted was looking down the lane, and why have the posts disappeared?

regards

Tom

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