Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

4thGordons

German Uniform Photos

Recommended Posts

4thGordons

Thank you very much everyone who has taken the time to respond. I am making all sorts of notes of things to follow up on as I try and come to grips with these.

I have scanned a few more for your perusal/comment.

So: this is a different style of tunic - one which I would have (in ignorance) have associated with Uhlans/Cavalry - would that be correct? (no sign of horse or other accoutrements here)

post-14525-0-88515600-1419783639_thumb.j

And here is an interesting group -- what do you think is held in the carrier on the man on right's (as we look) belt?

post-14525-0-21865500-1419784065_thumb.j

(I also note that it appears German puttee ribbons have a buckle on them which I did not know)

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

attachicon.gif2.jpg

(undated, blank divided back . Newspaper appears to be Hetz? Chalked sign above fireplace reads "...andres shlickeit"

What is the collar insignia on the chap front right as we look?

Your photograph here:

post-69449-0-08543800-1419783867_thumb.j

Those three-stripe collar tabs have been bugging me... Not that I have ever made a serious study of German uniforms but I cannot recollect ever seeing anything like these before. So I looked at other options, and one possibility is that they are for an Ottoman medical officer.on detached duty.. Check out this site: http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/ottoman-military-schools-ww1-ottoman-boy-scouts-movement/

So, did the Ottoman army send out trainee doctors to the European front? I know, this is a very wild guess - but as nobody else seems to have able to come up with anything, it's worth a try!

Note incidentally that the marching pickelhaube-wearing officer in your post no. 11 also has three stripes on his shoulder tabs, something else that I have never seen before in German army contexts - not that I claim to be an expert here - so perhaps he is also an Ottoman medical officer on detached duty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JWK

Those three-stripe collar tabs have been bugging me... Not that I have ever made a serious study of German uniforms but I cannot recollect ever seeing anything like these before. So I looked at other options, and one possibility is that they are for an Ottoman medical officer.on detached duty.. Check out this site: http://www.ottoman-uniforms.com/ottoman-military-schools-ww1-ottoman-boy-scouts-movement/

So, did the Ottoman army send out trainee doctors to the European front? I know, this is a very wild guess - but as nobody else seems to have able to come up with anything, it's worth a try!

Note incidentally that the marching pickelhaube-wearing officer in your post no. 11 also has three stripes on his shoulder tabs, something else that I have never seen before in German army contexts - not that I claim to be an expert here - so perhaps he is also an Ottoman medical officer on detached duty?

Well, "Ottoman third year medical school" was my initial reaction too, but then the guy sitting next to him has a what seems like a "16" on his shoulders (Fritz Limbach's Regiment, Westphalian) and the 16'ers were never anywhere near where this picture was taken. So I thought nah, can't be.

Or did the German Army do internships?

The third guy from the right seems to have legible shouldertitles, so if that part could be scanned in the highest resolution possible ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

Not sure if it will help much but again - about the best I can manage

attachicon.gifcockade.jpg

Your scan here:

post-69449-0-09416200-1419785441_thumb.j

Your close-up scan here:

post-69449-0-56399300-1419785143_thumb.j

Working again from memory in between shepherding people around Istanbul... There are two types of NCO collar lace here, short V on the left and more elaborate 'all round' on the right. IIRC, then the short type is pre-WW1, the longer type is WW1 period. Note that some of the guys also have a single stripe running down from the cuff, which is another NCO 'rank' mark, but damned if I can remember what.

Trajan

PS: Chris, and others, I know I am just throwing suggestions out as I am working very much from memory in between working - but as nobody else apart from SS and one or two others want to go down this road I hope they provide leads of a kind - until they are corrected!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

So: this is a different style of tunic - one which I would have (in ignorance) have associated with Uhlans/Cavalry - would that be correct? (no sign of horse or other accoutrements here)

attachicon.gif70tunic.jpg

Looks indeed to be a 1910 Uhlan tunic - but could be another cavalry? Off duty so no spurs, etc.! There are horizontal stripes on the collar, and so if he is Uhlan, my notes suggest he is 1, 2 or 3 Guards; or 17, 18, or 19. If not Uhlan, there are a variety of other cavalty units with those collar stripes. Don;'t have time to check the cockade - maybe SS will do that.

Is that an EK II ribbon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

And here is an interesting group -- what do you think is held in the carrier on the man on right's (as we look) belt?

attachicon.gif17w.jpg

(I also note that it appears German puttee ribbons have a buckle on them which I did not know)

Chris

post-69449-0-77386400-1419786986_thumb.j

Well, they don't seem to be Prussians! The light colour of the cockarden suggest Bayern - maybe SS will comment?

As for the carrier, those are pliers or wire cutters.

I didn't know about the Gamaschen (puttee) buckles either! BUT see: https://www.pinterest.com/classof77/wwi/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

Well, "Ottoman third year medical school" was my initial reaction too, but then the guy sitting next to him has a what seems like a "16" on his shoulders (Fritz Limbach's Regiment, Westphalian) and the 16'ers were never anywhere near where this picture was taken. So I thought nah, can't be.

Or did the German Army do internships?

The third guy from the right seems to have legible shouldertitles, so if that part could be scanned in the highest resolution possible ?

Here is a close up: Two men appear to have 16. The chap with the stripes on his collar appears to have 2.

JWK - do we know where this was taken?

post-14525-0-04548500-1419788422_thumb.j

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JWK

Chris,

picture was taken in Landres , just west of Thionville which in itself is just south of Luxemburg city. (see picture in post #3)

It reads "One year in Landres, [Villa ?] Gemuthlichkeit [sic] " , so any time from August 1915 .

And the guy third from the left (the good looking guy next to the one who had one beer too many it seems.....): which number does he have on his shoulders ?

JW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

Well, "Ottoman third year medical school" was my initial reaction too, but then the guy sitting next to him has a what seems like a "16" on his shoulders (Fritz Limbach's Regiment, Westphalian) and the 16'ers were never anywhere near where this picture was taken. So I thought nah, can't be.

Or did the German Army do internships?

Here is a close up: Two men appear to have 16. The chap with the stripes on his collar appears to have 2.

JWK, great minds think alike? :thumbsup:

Anyway, last one for the night - an early flight to UK tomorrow and horrible train problems there and so this is probably last one for a while! (Unless I can get one or two in before the flight!)

Well, being cautious on this, if a 16, then in addition to the Infanterie-Regiment Freiherr von Sparr (3. Westfälisches) Nr.16, I guess we need to allow for the Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon Nr. 16, Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 16, Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 16, and/or, just possibly, Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 16...

Off to bed now - Chris, this thread is almost as good as the King William's College Xmas quiz!

Trajan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

I think he too has a 16.

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JWK

It ís like a Christmas quiz!

Okay, so we have (at least) three guys from a 16 Regiment, one possible Ottoman, all the others seem to be NCO's of some description, a South German newspaper, and all that in Landres near Thionville.

I'm sure there's a logical explanation for it, but at the moment I haven't a clue.

Goes to show there's a story behind every picture.

JW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shippingsteel

Chris, re post #27, image shows a member of a Landsturm unit (8th Armee Korps) ... ie. unit VIII.5 is the 2.Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Andernach

Bit slow on the uptake there SS! :thumbsup: And 5 not 2!

Nein, dummkopf.!

I was correcting your earlier information (which you always say you are so happy to receive?) :whistle: There is a slight difference in the way the Landsturm units were designated ...

Their titles were based on the town of origin, in this case it is the 2nd Bataillon Landsturm which emanated from Andernach, but the 5th Landsturm unit in the VIII Armee Korps.

Cheers, S>S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

It ís like a Christmas quiz!

Okay, so we have (at least) three guys from a 16 Regiment, one possible Ottoman, all the others seem to be NCO's of some description, a South German newspaper, and all that in Landres near Thionville.

I'm sure there's a logical explanation for it, but at the moment I haven't a clue.

Goes to show there's a story behind every picture.

JW

Yes -- except we may never know the answer as there is no friendly quizmeister to tell us!

How about this group: All sporting the same medal ribbon and similar uniforms -- but what is the sleeve badge?

Insignia

post-14525-0-92131300-1419804913_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

oops and the group

post-14525-0-25415900-1419805044_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JWK

It's a bit like archeology, isn't it?

We get fed all the clues, but without contemporary written evidence we're just left making an educated guess.

"Oh, we believe this was a temple where they worshipped the goddess of fire".

And up there someone is rolling on the floor laughing, and crying "Are they for real? That was my stóve!"

For, maybe a little, help with those Kokarden (the bottom one that is, the top one is always the Deutsches Reich one:

in b/w and colour

*edit: ah, they don't show completely in the post. Click on them and you get the full view.

post-107702-0-11600100-1419806004_thumb.

post-107702-0-82815600-1419806081_thumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shippingsteel

So: this is a different style of tunic - one which I would have (in ignorance) have associated with Uhlans/Cavalry - would that be correct? (no sign of horse or other accoutrements here)

Re post #51 (top)

Correct Chris, this guy wears the Ulanka ... the tunic associated with the Uhlans. His tunic also shows the Polish cuffs, so definitely a Prussian Ulanen Regiment.

Cheers, S>S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

Thanks for the Kockarden ( I suspect this will be made more complicated by orthochromatic film as reds and yellows darken and blues lighten)... but they do explain this one based on shape:

post-14525-0-82782700-1419808256_thumb.j

(Hanseaten?)

But what about this add on? Any particular significance? Unfortunately I cannot make out the shoulder boards.

post-14525-0-27103200-1419808260_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shippingsteel

But what about this add on? Any particular significance? Unfortunately I cannot make out the shoulder boards.

Re your last photo (post #67)

This will be the Karpathenabzeichen decoration which was awarded to Bavarian units who fought with the Austrians (k.u.k) in that particular region.

Only approved in 1917, and only awarded to a couple of Bavarian Infanterie Divisions (ie. the Karpathenkorps). Note the paler contingent Kokarden.

Cheers, S>S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

Thanks - appreciated - I was drawing a complete blank on this with online searches.

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shippingsteel

How about this group: All sporting the same medal ribbon and similar uniforms -- but what is the sleeve badge?

Re your posts #63 & #64

I believe the sleeve insignia to which you refer indicates that this chap at front is a Doctor, but it might be worth getting some confirmation on that.?

My guess would be that they are all Medical Staff of some kind, given the very dark capbands. The Medical branch sported Dunkelblau capbands.

Cheers, S>S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

It's a bit like archeology, isn't it?

We get fed all the clues, but without contemporary written evidence we're just left making an educated guess.

"Oh, we believe this was a temple where they worshipped the goddess of fire".

And up there someone is rolling on the floor laughing, and crying "Are they for real? That was my stóve!"

Yes...so what is the equivalent of the old archeologist fallback "we believe it to be of ritual significance" :ph34r:

And then there are examples like this -- where they kindly hang a sign!

post-14525-0-31271900-1419824840_thumb.j

And here is yet another sort of jacket...with upper and lower pockets. The cap is different too (much heavier chin-strap evident) and a plainer belt. This is dated 1918. His shoulder tabs show what looks like a crown over 26

post-14525-0-74660600-1419824866_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shippingsteel

And then there are examples like this -- where they kindly hang a sign!

And about time.! Finally we get an easy one. I'm piling right in on this one while I've got the chance, haha.! :thumbsup:

So I think the sign says Schreibstube which should in this case mean Orderly Room, of the 2.M.G.K.J.R.91

So the Orderly Room of the 2nd Maschinengewehr Kompagnie of the (Oldenburgisches) Infanterie-Regiment Nr.91 :hypocrite:

Cheers, S>S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shippingsteel

His shoulder tabs show what looks like a crown over 26.

In the lower photo, it could perhaps be a French Horn over the 26, which would indicate a Jaeger unit (but I can't be sure so I'm only guessing here.?)

So possibly a member of Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon Nr.26 which were a wartime raised unit of Saxon origin, which would match with the light Kokarden.

Cheers, S>S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4thGordons

In the lower photo, it could perhaps be a French Horn over the 26, which would indicate a Jaeger unit (but I can't be sure so I'm only guessing here.?)

So possibly a member of Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon Nr.26 which were a wartime raised unit of Saxon origin, which would match with the light Kokarden.

Cheers, S>S

Could be -- what do you think?

post-14525-0-00127900-1419830203_thumb.j

Thanks for your assistance

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shippingsteel

Yes, I think that's it Chris. You can't see it clearly but the general shape is certainly there ... and there isn't that much else that it could be, really.

This illustration (while from a slightly earlier period) does show the shape and configuration of the Jaeger 'horn' as seen on the shoulderboards.

I would go with that ID anyway, especially when the Kokarden looks to be of the Saxon variety. I see he also carries a bayonet, so Primary Arms.

Cheers, S>S

post-52604-0-33493900-1419847156_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×