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AliceF

German cemeteries in France

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AliceF   
AliceF
3 hours ago, PascalMallet said:

Yes, I found that picture few weeks ago in Archives nationales in Paris.

This is really great. I am so happy for you that your search and all the time you have spent on it has been rewarded in this way!

I often wonder when I see these old photos on graves on internet, if there is still a relative alive and searching. Before I started my own search I did not know that we were so many still searching after 100 years. 

 

I had difficulties to locate the location of the photo on the map. I assume you did. Could you post it? 

What I found strange is that the French plate disappeared. I assume from what you wrote that it were French authorities who took care of the cemetery at that time.

 

Christine

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nigelcave   
nigelcave
16 hours ago, mva said:

I don't know that cemetery, but I know the Germ. cemeteries here in the Somme : just name, rank, date of death. Nothing else ! just a cross or a stone if Jewish.

eg1.jpg

eg2.jpg

Maybe so, but I would say not a requirement of the Peace Treaties - for example, German soldiers buried in CWGC cemeteries have as much information on the headstone as they (presumably) received from the German authorities, such as battalion, regiment etc.

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AOK4   
AOK4
7 hours ago, nigelcave said:

Maybe so, but I would say not a requirement of the Peace Treaties - for example, German soldiers buried in CWGC cemeteries have as much information on the headstone as they (presumably) received from the German authorities, such as battalion, regiment etc.

 

Unfortunately, it seems the units are disappearing from replaced headstones as I noticed on a few occasions. They also started using an abysmal modern font which is not fitting for a gravestone in my opinion. This is on replaced headstones on British cemeteries.

Leaving away the units is most probably done to save on engraving costs as VDK is always short of money.

Besides, one has to remember that VDK was not intended as an war graves commission, it was intended as a private peace organisation. They have no interest in the units etc. For them all dead are just war victims calling for peace.

 

 

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morrisc8   
morrisc8

I went to this German cemetery [ near Loivre ] 2 years ago when i was finding info about Villers Franqueux for my book on that village in ww1.

We must have gone 1 mile up a dirt track to find it.

 Keith

vf german cemt  ww1 army .JPG

vf german cemt  ww1.JPG

vf ww1 german cemt.JPG

vf german cemt.JPG

german ww1 cemetery.JPG

ww1 german cemetery.JPG

ww1 german cemetery photo 1.JPG

ww1 german cemetery photo 2.JPG

track to german cemetery ww1.photo JPG.JPG

track to german cemetery ww1.JPG

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AliceF   
AliceF
On ‎2017‎-‎08‎-‎17 at 23:53, AOK4 said:

The Allies did not forbid that. Check out Mons St. Symphorien for one.

Thanks for this information, Jan.

Interesting cemetery with headstones.

Did not find any good photos without copy-right, but here you can see examples of headstones: http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-military-cemetery-of-saint-symphorien-german-and-british-war-graves-74251075.html. Different units had different type of headstones, as I understood it.

The cemetery is situated in Belgium and a CWGC cemetery since 1919, however, information can also be found on the Volksbund webpage: http://www.volksbund.de/kriegsgraeberstaetten.html

 

Christine

 

 

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AOK4   
AOK4
7 hours ago, morrisc8 said:

I went to this German cemetery [ near Loivre ] 2 years ago when i was finding info about Villers Franqueux for my book on that village in ww1.

We must have gone 1 mile up a dirt track to find it.

 Keith

 

 

 

track to german cemetery ww1.photo JPG.JPG

 

 

Oh yes, the dirt track to Loivre brings up great memories of a visit with my two German friends to the Champagne some years ago. Our driver had a very nice 4x4 mercedes with which we drove at quite high speed along this track after someone coming from there had warned us that the cemetery was "unreachable". No problem for our party though... Although the black car was more like a white car afterwards.

 

Jan

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morrisc8   
morrisc8
7 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

 

Oh yes, the dirt track to Loivre brings up great memories of a visit with my two German friends to the Champagne some years ago. Our driver had a very nice 4x4 mercedes with which we drove at quite high speed along this track after someone coming from there had warned us that the cemetery was "unreachable". No problem for our party though... Although the black car was more like a white car afterwards.

 

Jan

Yes we had a hire car, covered with dust as well..

  Keith

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PascalMallet   
PascalMallet
On 18/08/2017 at 20:19, AliceF said:

This is really great. I am so happy for you that your search and all the time you have spent on it has been rewarded in this way!

I often wonder when I see these old photos on graves on internet, if there is still a relative alive and searching. Before I started my own search I did not know that we were so many still searching after 100 years. 

 

I had difficulties to locate the location of the photo on the map. I assume you did. Could you post it? 

What I found strange is that the French plate disappeared. I assume from what you wrote that it were French authorities who took care of the cemetery at that time.

 

Christine

I was away from my dear keyboard for two long days as we got some relatives visiting us... Time to relax and walk aroud (but no mushrooms, not one! even bad).

 

I was searching for families of the other French buried with my grand-father and I found few (5 or 6). Few of them had pictures and also told me stories. That was a great reward too! They are always very glad with the information I give. Unfortunately, most of those men were so young they had no wife nor children, so they are forgotten now. The sadest result for me was a wife searching for her husband and giving much information (as he always put his papers in his left pocket). She had a paper saying he was buried in massgrave n°1 (see the map I will post later). But he can't be identified and I am sure he is that unknown soldier they speak about. I contacted someone who could be a relative, but he told me no one is alive now in that area, even their children.

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PascalMallet   
PascalMallet
On 18/08/2017 at 20:19, AliceF said:

I had difficulties to locate the location of the photo on the map. I assume you did. Could you post it? 

What I found strange is that the French plate disappeared. I assume from what you wrote that it were French authorities who took care of the cemetery at that time.

 

For location of massgraves, look at the picture below. I guess the wooden and marble plates were against the wall, with still a little question for me as the wall has no outer angle there. I still have to dig...

 

The wife I was speaking of wrote that in 1920, marble plates (with German and French names together) has been broken by bombing. After, I can say French were not as good as other countries to honor their dead in those cemeteries. About Comines, remember it was a German cemetery with only 22 French and 3-4 British. But today, it is still a lot of work to get information and help from authorities, I can swear!

 

Pascal

 

5999ae94b4f87_MassgravesinComines.jpg.3b06b8f9b883a263350b5afd9806d1ec.jpg

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PascalMallet   
PascalMallet

About Comines (again), I almost finished to compare German map dated 1914-1918 and French map dated ab.1924, after they move bodies from civilian cemetery to German part. Here are few more information.

 

"R" part of the German map seem to be massgraves, as R1 to R97 are now called FC1 to FC97 (FC = MG), though their numbers are not at same place. Number of bodies in each FC is same as on German map.

 

FC98 to FC121 were dug in empty spaces of Saxon and Würtemburger parts (there was a monument there) to receive bodies from civilian cemetery, except FC108 to FC110 which stay there instead of MG3 and MG4. MG1 was probably moved to FC98 and MG2 to FC99. About parts noted "?", I don't if they were dug by German needing space or by French to move individual graves from civilian cemetery (I lean on that last option).

 

Looking closerly to a list VDK sent me two years ago (probably dated 1958), I found out that 281 bodies in MG4 (FC108) were put in only 171 caskets, made of bad "Spanholz" (I think handwritten "B" means "Bayerish"). As they used 2,000 such caskets to put 2,030 bodies in 121 massgraves, we can think bodies were in better shape in "R" massgraves, with less bodies in each. I also learnt that bodies with individual graves were put in better boxes with two spaces in each (1,000 boxes for about 2,000 identified men). I don't know yet how they were done but they were painted in grey and maybe round-shaped (information from a witness, has to be confirmed).

 

If any, I will take your comments thankfully.

 

Pascal

 

599b1abcb40dc_1924-Comines-Plan-PartieSW.JPG.f05e8861bb0ec2ef9efec71f1bc6b5f1.JPG

 

599b1b0378e11_Comines-Listefosses-2.jpg.fe1f5bf50af32798e4c769029ab91e1e.jpg

 

Comines-FC108-1-Hallier-Champenois.jpg.be8b93655215cd639aabec9baa8112d5.jpg

 

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