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brummell

Sgt Hector Stanley Jones - QWR

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brummell

I wonder if anyone could shed further light on this man.  He died of wounds on 6 August 1916 and is buried at Mont Huon, Le Treport.  After the disaster at Gommecourt the battalion stayed in the area throughout July, taking a steady stream of casualties throughout; but predictably the war diary doesn't mention O.R. casualties by name.  His service records do not appear to have survived.

 

I'd like to pin down when he received his fatal wounds - can anyone help?

 

 

- brummell

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Drew-1918
Posted (edited)

Hello Brummell,

 

There is nothing written in the history1, so far as I can see, for that date. Not much help to you I know, but thought you might like to cross that off your list.

 

1The War History of the 1st Battalion Queen's Westminster Rifles, 1914-1918, by Major J. Q. Henriques

(Difficult to negotiate this site 'page by page'. If I am searching for a specific date, I normally guess a page number and narrow it down in that way. This is far quicker than flicking through each page). 

August only gets a line or two here

 

Regards,

 

Chris

 

Edited by Drew-1918

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brummell

Thanks for your help, Chris, and the link.

 

 

- brummell

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Drew-1918

No problem. Thinking about it, you weren't really trying to search just for August, but were rather trying to pin down when he might have received his wounds up to that date. You did say that, I think I just missed the point. Apologies.

 

Chris

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Drew-1918

Don't know if you have seen this 

 

UK grave memorial

 

Looks like he is commemorated on another family member's grave in the UK. I cannot read the bottom. 

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brummell

No, I hadn't seen that.  Thank you, again.  Interesting.  He was from Dulwich and went to school in Camberwell, both within a couple of miles of this cemetery of course.  It says he died 6 August 1916 of wounds received in France and that he is buried at Le Treport - no more than we already knew, unfortunately.

 

I'm interested as to whether he suffered his fatal wounds on 1 July at Gommecourt; perhaps unlikely, as it was five weeks previous and I would have thought he'd have been evacuated to England if he had wounds serious enough to warrant five weeks at a base hospital.   More likely it was subsequent to that.  I also wonder if he even took part in the attack on 1 July, or was one of the hundreds of reinforcements posted in afterwards.

 

- brummell

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ss002d6252
30 minutes ago, brummell said:

No, I hadn't seen that.  Thank you, again.  Interesting.  He was from Dulwich and went to school in Camberwell, both within a couple of miles of this cemetery of course.  It says he died 6 August 1916 of wounds received in France and that he is buried at Le Treport - no more than we already knew, unfortunately.

 

I'm interested as to whether he suffered his fatal wounds on 1 July at Gommecourt; perhaps unlikely, as it was five weeks previous and I would have thought he'd have been evacuated to England if he had wounds serious enough to warrant five weeks at a base hospital.   More likely it was subsequent to that.  I also wonder if he even took part in the attack on 1 July, or was one of the hundreds of reinforcements posted in afterwards.

 

- brummell

I have seem men kept in France if the wounds were deemed to be too serious to move across the channel. As an example, this seems to have happened with a lot of DLI men after 2nd Ypres. The less injured were sent home as fast as possible, presumably to get them out of the way, and the more seriously injured were dealt with a lot less quickly. Many of the seriously injured spent quite a while in France.


Craig

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brummell

Thanks, Craig.  The 'too seriously injured to move' thing did cross my mind, so it's interesting that you know of examples.  Seems like we'll never know though, at this rate!

 

 

- brummell

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charlie962

He was in the Official Casualty List of 5/8/16 as wounded and 5/9/16 as died of wounds. There is always about a month's delay in such reporting so you can assume he was wounded early July but exactly when ???

Charlie

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Drew-1918
Posted (edited)

His medal roll shows that he was part of the first cohort that landed in November 1914, so he wasn't a reinforcement. I think it says that he was a Sergeant upon entry to theatre (so, not promoted after Gommecourt because of casualties). Soldiers' Effects states that he was in 'C' Company. 

 
It is possible he was part of the battle surplus, I suppose? In the history, many sergeants get a mention by name at Gommecourt since they are so prominent with so many officers getting killed. I couldn't see his name in there. That is nowhere near conclusive evidence, of course, but just thought I would mention it. It is just an alternative idea, he could well have received serious wounds at Gommecourt in a scenario like Craig mentions. I wonder if he might get a mention in the newspaper casualty lists?
 
 
Edited by Drew-1918

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Drew-1918

Ah, ok, Charlie had thought of that one! 

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charlie962
Posted (edited)

I looked at a few on the same Daily List. Drukker JB, 3962 has a surviving service record. He was 1/16th Londons. His record shows him being wounded 1/7/16- even going to Treport then evac UK. So it is quite possible for Jones to be at the same time but not definately so! I wonder how often each week the Casualty returns were compiled? It might be worth checking out a few more on the same Daily List and seeing if they all have similar wound dates (that is if they are in the same London unit and have a surviving service record). you have some footwork to do!

Charlie

 

edit  Found another Markwell WS 3299 is the second with a service record out of about a dozen names I've checked at random from that same list which has 200 names under London Regiment. He too was 1/16th at the time and was wounded on 1/7/16. So probability increasing...

Edited by charlie962

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Drew-1918
4 hours ago, Drew-1918 said:

His medal roll shows that he was part of the first cohort that landed in November 1914, so he wasn't a reinforcement. I think it says that he was a Sergeant upon entry to theatre (so, not promoted after Gommecourt because of casualties). Soldiers' Effects states that he was in 'C' Company. 

 

 Wrong! Apologies. The 1914 Star Roll states that he was a Rifleman when he first joined the BEF. Sorry about that, my understanding of the BW&VM Roll info was obviously wrong. 

 

Chris

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brummell

Thanks for the continuing help.  The wounding timeline details/probabilities are interesting, offering a good narrowing down - sadly not quite to a point, but such is the game we're in.  Great to get the entry into theatre date, as this shows Jones was either already a member on the outbreak of war, was a returning former member (although his age suggests not) or was one of the few hundred recruits to make it in before the battalion came up to strength; it also of course puts him at the QWR's 1914-1915 actions.

 

I don't always get the MICs, since so many of them are quite sparse in detail and I have over a hundred men to research; I think I will have to bite the bullet, though - sometimes you find a real nugget.

 

 

- brummell

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Drew-1918

Did you know that the MiCs are free to download at Ancestry?

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brummell

If you're an Ancestry member, presumably?  Which I'm not currently - but we'll see how much I can get done in the 14-day free trial ?

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Drew-1918

You have to have an account to login, but you do not have to be a paid-up member to view the MiCs. I let my account lapse a while back as I was too busy, but I can still access the medal cards. ;)

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charlie962

In an idle moment I've checked another 5 names . 3 have service records (Pay 2125, Pearce 3854, Pindar 4245). All three are 1/16th lONDON , wounded 1/7/16 and pass thro' 2/1 LFA to 43CCS then 16GH Treport or 2GH Havre.

So that makes 5 out of 5 on the same list. I think you can say it is 'most probable' ?

Charlie

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brummell

Thanks, Charlie.  As you say, the chances are mounting...

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