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Louise Baldock

Joseph Winn died UK 16th January 1918, Durham Light Infantry 3/5th 1706 - where was he wounded?

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Louise Baldock

Hello everyone

 

You were so incredibly helpful in my search for Samuel Winn and Joseph Duncan, providing information I didn't even know was available.

 

So I wonder if you can work your magic on Joseph Winn. He was in the Durham Light Infantry. Died 16th January 1918 in the UK.

 

Death registered in Middlesbrough but buried in Brookwood MIlitary Cemetery in Woking - presumably from wounds.

 

I would like to know where he was serving when he was injured, how long he had been back in the UK if that is possible and any other snippets.

 

He was the son of Alexander and Rebecca Winn of Thornaby.

 

You already found him on Thornaby Cenotaph for me

 

Thanks very much,

 

Very best wishes, Louise

 

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RaySearching

Hi Louise 

Josephs Pension Records  can be found on Ancestry Here

 

Looks like he was incapacitated due to TB 

 

Ray

 

 

Edit had a quick look at his pension papers  no overseas service

Edited by RaySearching

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RaySearching

 

4 hours ago, Louise Baldock said:

Death registered in Middlesbrough but buried in Brookwood MIlitary Cemetery in Woking - presumably from wounds.

 

Louise

Joseph Winn is not buried in Brookwood Cemetery he is commemorated on the Brookwood (United Kingdom 1914-1918) Memorial, Surreyblank_1x1.gif

 

He died after being discharged from service of T.B 

Found to be missing from the CWGC  register his name put forward for commemoration by the In from the cold project (Volunteer Kevin Galloway)

 

his name accepted on the 22nd Sept 2011 and added to the register

 

Link to The  In From The Cold Project

 

Ray

 

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PRC
12 hours ago, Louise Baldock said:

Death registered in Middlesbrough.

 

 

Hi,

 

Do you know that for sure? The death of a 25 year Joseph Winn was recorded in the Middlesbro Registration District, which included the Thornaby Civil Parish, in Q1 of 1918. That doesn't quite tie up with the Census records, (9 in 1901, 20 in 1911) or the birth record - there is a Joseph Winn registered in the Middlesbro District in Q1 of 1892. Of course the error could have crept in to any of those records, and I do think its probably the same man. Just  flagging it up because I tend to find soldiers with infectious diseases are often not returned to their hometown for burial. If he is missing from the Register of Deaths for England and Wales because he died in Scotland or Ireland then you would struggle to locate his burial place.

 

Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a Civil Probate entry for him and there doesn't appear to be an Absent Voters List for 1918 for that part of Yorkshire. Either of those might have helped pin down his place of residence that was a bit more up to date than the 1911 census. (If he wasn't on it, his brothers might have been).

 

A trip to the County Archive, (although I'm not sure which one),  to check out newspapers of the period could be the most likely route to tracking down his final resting. There could be a newspaper report, possibly a coroners inquest, death notice or list of funerals that have taken place. From that you may be able to track down where he was buried.

 

Good Luck,

Peter

 

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RaySearching

 Joseph  Winn has been researched previously, By the late Kevin Galloway a former member of the forum, Kevin sadly passed away in 2013

Kevin at the time a  volunteer for the  In from the Cold Project  responsible for bringing Joseph in from the cold

 

I have sent a pm to John Hartley  a member of the In From the cold project 

alerting him to this thread he may be able to shed a little more light on the matter 

Its quite likely that The In from the cold project has a copy of Joseph Winn's  death cirt

which should resolve the place and date of death and possibility his final resting place 

 

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Terry Denham

Joseph WINN died on 16.01.18 at 10 Mansfield St, Thornaby-on-Tees in the presence of his brother, William.

 

He was discharged from the army on 03.05.16 suffering from pulmonary tuberculosis stated to have been aggravated by service. He died of this same condition within the qualifying dates and so qualifies for CWGC commemoration.

 

We have his death certificate but have not yet located his grave so he is temporarily commemorated on the Brookwood 1914-1918 Memorial.

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RaySearching

Thanks John and Terry  for your assistance

in confirming the place and date of death 

Ray

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John_Hartley

Hopefully Chris Harley will be along in due course about the actual burial place which is unidentified at present, as Terry notes.  The bet has to be on somewhere in the Thornaby area.

Edited by John_Hartley

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RaySearching

 

Quote from a previous post by the op regarding Samuel Winn, Josephs brother

 

His great niece is currently the Deputy Mayor of Stockton on Tees and will be visiting Thornaby Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday as part of her official duties.

It will be even more significant to her this year to know that she is paying her respects to Joseph and Samuel in particular.

 

Louise 

I am sure as the deputy mayor of Stockton. Joseph's niece  would have access to the burial records 

could you liaise with her and see if she can ascertain Joseph's burial location  

and let the forum and the In from the cold project know the location and plot number

 

 

Thanks Ray

 

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Louise Baldock

Thanks everyone.

You are simply magnificent on this forum.

I can ask the Deputy Mayor about this but it is a ceremonial position, so I am not sure that she has access to burial records better than any of the rest of us do.

At the moment she doesn't know anything about all of this, I am finding it out for her in readiness for November 11th.

William Winn - in attendance - was her grandfather. I would imagine Joseph is buried in the big cemetery on Acklam Road, Thornaby.

I will write to someone in the council and ask them to look, and then let you know what I find.

I would like to posthumously thank Kevin for his work on this too

Best wishes, Louise

 

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PRC

Louise,

 

Has some spare minutes this afternoon waiting for my son to come out of college so popped into the local library to use their free subscription to the British Newspaper Archive. As I didn't know which papers might have covered Thornaby and so didn't know which County archive might best help you I thought I'd find out by simply putting it in as a search.  The biggest match was labelled as the Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough, which had over three times as many references as the next paper The Hartlepool Northern Daily Mail. I added Winn to the search criteria and found the "In memoria" notice that you have posted. Buoyed with that success I then tried to see if I could find the editions for the week after his death to see if there was any reference to him that wasn't being brought up - like most of these sites a really low quality automated Optical Character Reader has been used and so much of what is transcribed is sheer gibberish.

 

Took some doing but good experience for the next time so thanks :).

 

Still haven't found a place of burial, ( I could not get every day to come up and each day only presented a selection of pages). And I was thrown at first as the Newspaper names on the images were different.  But in The North-Eastern Daily Gazette, (aka Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough) in the edition dated Thursday, January 17, 1918, there appeared the following death notice.

 

WINN.- On January 16, Joseph, the beloved son of Mr and Mrs A. Winn, of 10, Mansfield-street, Thornaby, and late of D.L.I. Interment Sunday at 3 (?) p.m.

 

That to me would indicate the burial was local. (Cropped image attached)

59d7b0407d206_DailyGazetteforMiddlesbrough-Thursday17January1918WinnDeathNoticeCrop.jpg.5e3be252d22411335c6db831ffcda9f8.jpg

 

There are several partial listings of the Thornaby-on-Tess Cemetery on Durham Road on line. One even includes a Winn but from an earlier generation and possibly not related as Alexander and Rebecca were born Ireland.

http://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=330782&scrwidth=800

Stockton Council says its has online records for the cemetery and others in the council area but I obviously haven't had enough caffeine today because I can't work out how to use it.:-)

https://www.stockton.gov.uk/stockton-council/births-deaths-marriages-and-civil-partnerships/how-to-obtain-a-certificate/online-search-help/

 

I would suspect that if Kevin had the details of the grave location then the Brookwood Memorial stage would have been missed out.

Hope that helps

 

Peter

Edited by PRC
Typo

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John_Hartley

I'd also found the gravestonephotos website which seems to list Winns in two different parts of the cemetery. It is possible that they are his family. It may be worth trying to ID where the parents or brother, mentioned upthread, are buried and see if this might give a clue.

 

(Chris - not trying to teach you how to suck eggs, mate. You are the Gravefinder General)

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RaySearching

Its possible that Joseph shares a grave with his brother Alexander born 1894 died 1912

 

Ray

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RaySearching
5 hours ago, Louise Baldock said:

I would like to posthumously thank Kevin for his work on this too

 

Not forgetting The In From the  Cold Project for putting Joseph forward for commemoration

 

Ray

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Louise Baldock

I have been in touch with the council officer responsible for cemeteries. I await her response and will update you. If I get details I will arrange to go and see it and take a photograph for your records. Thanks to everyone - including the In From the Cold Project.

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RaySearching

Louise as soon as Josephs final resting place is found 

He will be entitled to a CWGC headstone to mark his grave

If you manage to find  where Joseph is interred  please let 

the In from the Cold Project know, they will pass the details on to the CWGC

to put the necessary arrangements in motion 

 

Ray

 

 

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Louise Baldock

Good morning.

 

I have heard back from the registrar who advises thus

Further to your enquiry regarding the late Private Joseph Winn, I can confirm Joseph was interred on the 20th January 1918 (Aged 25) in Thornaby Cemetery – Grave Number J S 53.  Buried in the same grave in Alexander Winn (Aged 84) interred 27th March 1944.

There is an adjacent grave number: J S 54, which I assume is the same family.  In this grave is Alexander Winn (Aged 17) interred 7 December 1911 and Rebecca Winn (Aged 74) interred 8th August 1934.

The address recorded in the register for all is 10 Mansfield Street, Thornaby.

 

We have the birth entry at the Register Office for Joseph, who was born on the 26th January 1892 and his death entry, which confirms he died on the 16th January 1918.

 

Cemetery Staff have just confirmed there are no headstones on these family graves.  (There is one on JS55 – Percival/Bell), which will serve as a point of reference).

So, please can you advise me on the best person to speak to at the In From The Cold Project.

I am so thrilled that we might be able to commemorate this soldier properly as we approach the centenary of his death.

Thanks again everyone!

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RaySearching

Excellent news Louise

 

I have sent Terry Denham of the In from the cold project a message 

alerting him to the news that Josephs grave location has been found

with a link to this thread

 

 

Ray

 

 

 

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Terry Denham

Louise

 

We can process the 'find' but we will need a copy of the appropriate burial register page as evidence.

 

Can you obtain this and send it to me?

 

Well done

 

Terry

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chrisharley9
On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 14:30, Louise Baldock said:

I have been in touch with the council officer responsible for cemeteries. I await her response and will update you. If I get details I will arrange to go and see it and take a photograph for your records. Thanks to everyone - including the In From the Cold Project.

Hello Louise

 

I asked the council some time ago about the burial of Joseph, but never received a response. If you do get an answer from them could you please ask them for a copy of the burial register please then we should be able to get this case sorted.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

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Louise Baldock
19 hours ago, chrisharley9 said:

Hello Louise

 

I asked the council some time ago about the burial of Joseph, but never received a response. If you do get an answer from them could you please ask them for a copy of the burial register please then we should be able to get this case sorted.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris

Their response is above - in my post. They confirmed the plot etc.

Do you actually need the burial register or can I just forward you the email from the Registrar with the map of the cemetery and the detail of the plot etc?

Or you can contact her for more information once you have this email forwarded to you?

The Registrar has told me they will authorise any CWGC requests on the same day.

Email me on louise dot baldock 65 at btinternet dot com and I will forward you the correspondence.

Thanks!
Louise

 

23 hours ago, PRC said:

Louise,

 

Absolutely brilliant.

 

Looking at the CWGC website they already manage 153 graves at the Acklam Road site, so hopefully are familiar with the location, :-)

https://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/45919/thornaby-on-tees-cemetery/

 

regards,

Peter

 

Yes there are lots. I visited it officially a few years ago with Kevan Jones MP who is a CWGC commissioner. It is well cared for too.

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Louise Baldock
23 hours ago, Terry Denham said:

Louise

 

We can process the 'find' but we will need a copy of the appropriate burial register page as evidence.

 

Can you obtain this and send it to me?

 

Well done

 

Terry

 

 

Hi Terry -  see my message to Chris above. Whichever of you wants to contact me, we can take it from there.

Best wishes, Louise

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chrisharley9

Hello Louise

 

will get all of this sorted out later.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

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Louise Baldock

Just to confirm I have now put Chris in touch with the Council officer who was so helpful to me earlier. Fingers crossed.

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