Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

corisande

Lt Douglas C Taylor RGA - did he exist?

Recommended Posts

corisande

One of the ex-officers who joined the ADRIC that I have not been able to progress

 

Lt Douglas C Taylor RGA - click for what I have

 

When he joined the Royal Irish Constabulary he gave these details

 

1892 Jan 29 Born Surrey (RIC) and in RGA and "Douglas C Taylor"

 

Nobody fits

  • "Douglas Clifton Taylor was born in right quarter in Surrey in 1891, but he died in 1917 and was never in RGA, and never commissioned.
  • "Douglas Carey Taylor " was born in Surrey in Dec 1898 and is out on year date as well, but did have an RGA commission
  • There are no Douglas Taylor born in Surrey at that time apart from Douglas Clifton Taylor
  • My assumption is that he was not born Taylor, but changed at some point, but I still cannot get the "C"

 

I cannot find A "Douglas C Taylor in RGA - can anyone help. It usually is too easy to say he changed his name !

 

Edited by corisande

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John_Hartley

Best bet seems to be Douglas Carey Taylor, although presumably you'd need to see what was in his service file at Kew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

John

 

Thanks. That was what I thought originally, but the evidence against it being him mounted

 

"Douglas Carey Taylor " was born in Surrey in 11 Dec 1897 and got his commission in RE. Did not serve in RGA . The man in the RIC claims birth in Surrey 29 Jan 1892 and in RGA

 

These RIC enrolments can wander a bit from the truth, but there is usually a fragment of truth in them. I thought that there must be another "Douglas C Taylor" in RGA that I cannot find - I still travel in hope of finding another  :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
museumtom
First name(s) Douglas Carey
Last name Taylor
Relationship Scholar
Sex Male
Occupation Schoolboy
Age 13
Birth year 1898
Birth place Surrey Sutton
Address Sutherland House Windlesham Camberly Surrey
Parish Windlesham
County Surrey
Country England
Archive reference RG14
Registration district Chertsey
Registration district number 32
Enumeration district 6
District number 6
Sub district Chobham
Sub district number 3
Census reference RG14PN3020 RG78PN106 RD32 SD3 ED6 SN15
RG78 code number 106
Piece number 3020
Folio -
Page -
Other household member first name(s) -
Other household member last name -
Record set 1911 Census For England & Wales
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Great Britain, England

(c) brightsolid online publishing ltd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clk

Hi,

 

Part 1 of this free download doesn't appear to help other than to confirm Douglas Carey Taylor was RE Signals.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

Thank you both. As I say everything seems wrong with "Douglas Carey Taylor"

 

- year , month and day of birth all different to RIC enlistment data

- RE and not RGA

 

My assumption is that there is another officer "Douglas C Taylor" who was in the RGA and whom I have not yet found

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
seaJane

Any chance the C is actually a misread G?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

Thank Jane

 

The reason I post this sort of query is to see what I could have missed that is blindingly obvious in retrospect :-) But unfortunately not here

 

The two ms references to him in RIC files are. Which seem unequivocally to be "C"

 

taylor1.jpg.f328eff6b7e1802d6fc848f7db14a712.jpg

taylor2.jpg.010f073d1fa6b78f8414b405fae14232.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TTracer44

There is a Cecil Douglas Taylor born dec qtr 1894 Lambeth 1d 445, apparently Lambeth spanned the border into Surrey, unfortunatly the dates dont tie up with yours.

Den

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

Den

 

Thanks. Often with these sorts of brick walls the answer can turn out to be something as simple as the chap changing the order of his Christian names

 

The problem here is compounded by Taylor being a very common Surname, so it is difficult to cover all the options

 

As you say those dates do not tie up, but ther e may be someone who is C.... Douglas Taylor. I will have a good look at that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clk

Hi,

 

The file I linked in post #5 should (I think) give you all of the 'regular' commissions with the surname of Taylor. I don't think that it includes TF commissions though.

 

Regards

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
voltaire60

 Just to make sure that Douglas Clifton Taylor is truly dead and buried- apart from CWGC, SDGW- there is:

 

1)  On Bank of England War  Memorial- Apparently 5 members of his family worked for the bank

 

2)   memorial plaque put up by family in AllSaints, Carshalton, Surrey.  

 

      We had another one of these phantoms with Tom-Man came from Walthamstow but details eventually panned out to be basically true but a little confused-either by accident or design.

 

       I  note the properly dead Douglas Clifton Taylor was in Artists Rifles, so presumably close to commission at time of death. This would account for the Temporary Cadet on the enlistment record you have. Looks like a clear case of personation.  Could this be why the man resigned-whoever he was???

 

     If you want any officer files relating to this looked up, then I should be able to do it my next trip to Kew.  Love these little mysteries-but fear the answer may not emerge for this one.  If the Tans had any sort of adjutant or record office system, would there be any chance that there may be something in administration files rather than individual personnel files, wrapped around the 1921 dates given? Perhaps some sort of disciplinary action against another name?

     If he was a "Plant" then I don't see why there would be a resigned entry. Whoever he was he had access to DC Taylor's records

 

 

  

Edited by voltaire60

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rflory

A "2nd Lieutenant D. C. Taylor" is listed in the war diary of 65th Brigade, RFA (WO 95-455) on 8 September 1917 as being hospitalized but the only officer by that name in the May 1917 and November 1917 Army Lists is an RE officer.  I wonder if he was serving as a Signal Officer for 65th Brigade especially as the Royal Engineer D. C. Taylor received a Silver War Badge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

clk = yes, I have that complete set downloaded, and as you say, it does not include TA

 

voltaire60 - that is a good point, I admit with the cwgc record that I just stopped looking at him. The Cadet is a bit of a red herring here. The ADRIC were all called Temporary Cadets, even though they had to be officers to enrol in ADRIC/ Basically these registers that I am using are all that remains of the Auxiliaries existence in Ireland

 

rflory - that is a possible solution, ie attached as a signals officer. But if so his dob does bot tie in with RIC record

 

So far no other officer "Douglas C " has been smoked out, in which case I will have to see if I can get any more on the two possibles, to see if either could be the an

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HarryBrook

Could he have been Patrick Douglas Chisholm Taylor who, for shall we say practical reasons, dropped the Patrick?

There is an extensive family tree on ancestry. The tree states that he was born in Surrey, January 1892.

He was formerly Pte. SS/844 A.S.C. and gazetted into the RG.A. 24 November 1917  https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30407/supplement/12539

He was later in the R.A.F. His medal index card (there are three attached to the ancestry tree) shows his medals as forfeited. He later emigrated to the U.S.A.

I do not know how the various events on the family tree would fit datewise with the service of the Douglas C. Taylor in ADRIC.

I will check when he left the Army/R.A.F. later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
voltaire60
43 minutes ago, HarryBrook said:

Could he have been Patrick Douglas Chisholm Taylor who, for shall we say practical reasons, dropped the Patrick?

There is an extensive family tree on ancestry. The tree states that he was born in Surrey, January 1892.

He was formerly Pte. SS/844 A.S.C. and gazetted into the RG.A. 24 November 1917  https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30407/supplement/12539

He was later in the R.A.F. His medal index card (there are three attached to the ancestry tree) shows his medals as forfeited. He later emigrated to the U.S.A.

I do not know how the various events on the family tree would fit datewise with the service of the Douglas C. Taylor in ADRIC.

I will check when he left the Army/R.A.F. later.

 

     This looks very promising- and no officer file at Kew-indicating (apart from official incompetence), that he served after 1918 or so.  Would the forfeiture date on his MIC (if there is a reference number) tally with leaving the Tans???   

 

(And a very long shot indeed- not going to find the original reference in a month of Sundays)- the last dodgy fellow from the Tans was James Yonge Akerman- local to me in the east of London. Again,,2 people of the same name born and lived close together. Seem to remember that Akerman afterwards went off to Mexico-with some other Tans. Thus, intrigued by the reference to Taylor leaving for US.  Possibly one of these ex-Tans who ended up in Mexico???   Just a thought- Akerman went with(I think) 3 others.

Edited by voltaire60

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HarryBrook

2nd Lt. P. D. C. Taylor was promoted Lt. in the R.G.A. on 25 May 1919 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31711/supplement/16116 and relinquished his Army commission on 1 April 1920 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32168/supplement/12478

He was then granted a short service commission in the R.A.F. as a Flying Officer 5 September 1921 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32473/page/7679 He was then using the surname Chisholm-Taylor. He was confirmed in his R.A.F. rank on 22 December 1921 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32680/page/3236 Finally he was dismissed the service by sentence of G.C.M. 17 August 1922 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32743/page/6383 He had served in the Stores Branch of the R.A.F.

 

So, if my theory about dropping the Christian name Patrick for service with ADRIC is correct there was time between him relinquishing his commission in the R.G.A. and re-appearing as Chisholm-Taylor in the R.A.F. to have done so.

 

Edited by HarryBrook
Correcting typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
voltaire60
1 hour ago, HarryBrook said:

2nd Lt. P. D. C. Taylor was promoted Lt. in the R.G.A. on 25 May 1919 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31711/supplement/16116 and relinquished his Army commission on 1 April 1920 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32168/supplement/12478

He was then granted a short service commission in the R.A.F. as a Flying Officer 5 September 1921 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32473/page/7679 He was then using the surname Chisholm-Taylor. He was confirmed in his R.A.F. rank on 22 December 1921 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32680/page/3236 Finally he was dismissed the service by sentence of G.C.M. 17 August 1922 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32743/page/6383 He had served in the Stores Branch of the R.A.F.

 

So, if my theory about dropping the Christian name Patrick for service with ADRIC is correct there was time between him relinquishing his commission in the R.G.A. and re-appearing as Chisholm-Taylor in the R.A.F. to have done so.

 

 

   Fits very well.  Now to look for any version of his name in the Press - though Stores may give a hunch about that.  Note that he and another were court-martialled-but allowed to retain their ranks. Seems odd if medals were forfeit-or was a bad boy twice over?

Edited by voltaire60

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

Thanks very much for that lead

 

i am traveling all day today, and airports are not the best places for research

 

as I find out time and time again, that when you do find the right solution, it always looks obvious

 

i will get back to the thread later today when Ryan Air deliver me to Malta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

That really proves it. The probability of him not being our man is infinitely small

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HolymoleyRE

It would appear he moved between Canada and the US, there is 1945 Canada to the US movement record has him as an Auditor and Patrick Douglas Chisholm Taylor, and a couple of US federal census records on Ancestry which are linked to him as an Accountant on the 1930 one aged 38 going by the name Douglas

 

On a side note Corisande are you linked to the ADRIC website? As I have Raymond Gillett Cox's WW1 service records.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited by HolymoleyRE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

He was not with the 4 auxiliaries who went to Mexico.

 

If you look up James William Ackerman on my site www.theauxiliaries.com (use Google to get there) His page will give you the 3 others

 

 

Andy 

 

yes that hat is my web site. I will pm you my email. Very grateful for any records you can add

Edited by corisande

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HarryBrook

Unfortunately not with his full name, just as Douglas Taylor, but this is the link to the death record featured in the family referred to in post #20

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=ohdeath93-98&h=2504965&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=iOX5559&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=60901

and a U.S. Social Security claim in connection with the above death which uses the name Douglas C. Taylor. This record gives a birth date of 29 January 1892.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=Numident&h=1626339&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=iOX5559&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=5763

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HolymoleyRE

Agreed Harry, but he is a 1892 YoB Douglas Taylor man born in England and a divorcee...but your efforts have appeared to nail it!

 

Well done 😊

 

Regards

 

Andy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×