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tharkin56

What am I missing MIC & GRU Private, CWGC Lieutenant David Crombie

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tharkin56

I am looking at David Crombie service no 9959 died 14/7/16 

 

MIC on findmy past has private, GRU records attached to file has private. Typed up record has Private

 

I am missing something

 

Just noticed difference, is the record incorrect

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/310792/crombie,-david/

 

Not researching this person in detail it just looks odd

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IPT

Also, he had been promoted to Sergeant in October 1916 and there's nothing in his papers about reverting to private.

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alf mcm

The CWGC record must be a clerical error, since he has been recorded with a service number.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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alf mcm
3 minutes ago, IPT said:

Also, he had been promoted to Sergeant in October 1916 and there's nothing in his papers about reverting to private.

 

IPT,

  That means he was promoted after he died! Technically he was still a Private.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McAM

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tharkin56

and he had several promotions whilst he had already fell in action. I knew something wasn't right.

 

I will contact CWGC and ask how many officers they have with a service number as this may not be the only one. 

 

The Excel limit would be exceeded if I downloaded all and filtered myself

 

Thanks all

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IPT

The service papers also have date of death as 14/4/1917.

 

 

Edited by IPT

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tharkin56

Also comes across C E Cook 2/Sussex GRU has 7.7.15 CWGC has 8/7/916, year later.

 

GRU has men with varying date of death so this may also be a mistake.

 

 

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alf mcm

Soldiers effects has David Crombie dying on 14/07/16, as a Private.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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ss002d6252
2 minutes ago, alf mcm said:

Soldiers effects has David Crombie dying on 14/07/16, as a Private.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

How much was paid with the war gratuity ?

Craig

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stiletto_33853

I wish the CWGC would spend it's money on correcting their records than spend yet more money on a website when it was only done a little while ago.

 

Andy

Edited by stiletto_33853

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ss002d6252
Just now, stiletto_33853 said:

I wish the CWGC would send it's money on correcting their records than spend yet more money on website when it was only done a little while ago.

 

Andy

I second that - a new website that,  to me, is inferior to the last one.

Craig

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alf mcm
13 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

How much was paid with the war gratuity ?

Craig

 Craig,

 

  It was £11.0.0.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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tharkin56

On the web site I am sure i used to be able to do more filtering, now I have to download to excel and loose the links or manually trawl through hundreds of page.

 

i thought there would be few relatively easy checks you could do, officer and service number incorrect statement. Do something with data prompt?

 

In this day and age it is not possible to automatically produce a table 

Surname, Forename, Rank, Bn, GRU date, MIC date, SDGW, CWGC date, war diary page, 

 

I have also come across the Battalion being right on the GRU and the CWGC being a mismatch.

 

PS I know its possibly manually because I'm doing it for men I am researching.

 

On find my past, you can filter on illustrated,  so surely two databases can be mashed together and fill the photos that appear as profiles on the CWGC pages with photos of the fallen. 

 

Some sort of automation would be a great start, I dont have the budget for that but when I get a bit of time might trial one paper on findmypast to CWGC records.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ss002d6252
12 hours ago, alf mcm said:

 Craig,

 

  It was £11.0.0.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

Thanks - spot on for a Private who had enlisted and then stayed on past the original 7 years so he was still a regular in Aug 14 (his records would appear to confirm)

 

Craig

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rolt968

It might be as well to check the war diary. We found a man who was promoted sergeant, then given a kind of field  commission, then killed within a few days. I will check back through my posts to see if I can find it.

RM

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petwes

The following Officers have service numbers.  I have filtered out Imperial Troops (New Zealand etc.) where many of the officers have numbers.  There are quite a few RAF; did they routinely have service numbers?

 

Peter

To cope with the large number of records in the CWGC database I download the data as a CSV file where file size is not a limit and then connected it to a pivot table in a standard Excel spread sheet.

 

image.png.1309312ab503d9db8991ffc117785452.png

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RussT

Re: David Crombie - this is my interpretation ... (unless I've missed something).

 

I would suggest that the single page within David Crombie's service papers supposedly showing him being promoted after his death is in fact for a different man.

 

That single page is clipped at the top so it has no name or number on it. It also shows a different enlistment date (12/01/07) to all the other pages for Crombie (23/01/07).

 

I would also suggest that the rank of Lieutenant on CWGC is a simple clerical error by CWGC which could be readily corrected by letting them know.

 

Regards

 

Russ

 

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RussT

Further to the above, I would even go further and make the prediction that this single page is actually for the following man:

 

John Fairweather Royal Scots, Service Number 9951 (so close to Crombie's number of 9959).

 

Fairweather DoW on 14/04/1917 as a Sgt with the 11/Bn and is buried at AUBIGNY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION.

 

The 30th CCS was "serving" that cemetery at this date and the page notes that this 11/Bn man DoW at 30/CCS on 14/04/1917 as a Sgt.

 

The numbers 9951 and 9959 are also self consistent with the two different enlistment dates.

 

Regards

 

Russ

 

EDIT: Just noticed that John Fairweather's service file also exists, with this page within it - so that prediction is proved.

 

 

Edited by RussT

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alf mcm

An excellent result Russ. That just leaves the other 37 names on Peter's list!

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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rolt968
18 hours ago, alf mcm said:

Soldiers effects has David Crombie dying on 14/07/16, as a Private.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

Further evidence if needed. The death return/ certificate in scotlandspeople has him as Private killed in action on 14/07/16

RM

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RussT
3 hours ago, alf mcm said:

An excellent result Russ. That just leaves the other 37 names on Peter's list!

 

 

Well, I have checked the two Lancashire Fusiliers men on that list.

 

Both were Privates (confirmed by Graves Registration Documents, SDGW, Soldiers' Effects Records, and MICs/Medal Rolls), not Lieutenants as recorded in CWGC.

 

So these look to me like clerical errors in CWGC.

 

Private 201007 (previously 2964 5th Bn LF) George Gates, 1/5th Bn LF, died 23/10/1918.

 

Private 53164 (formerly 110845 RAMC) Henry James Preston, 15th Bn LF, died 02/11/1918.

 

Russ

 

Edited by RussT

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petwes

The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders look correct.

Peter

 

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