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wmfinch

Clinometer

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wmfinch

Hello All,

 

My Grandfather was a Gun Layer on a 4.5 inch Howitzer and I have recently purchased a  No. 7  Dial Sight .  But I am now wondering about trying to purchase the correct type of clinometer, but am unsure which version would be correct for a 4.5 inch Howitzer.  Any help, advice, photograph will be very much appreciated.

 

V/R

 

Wayne Finch

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Khaki

Hello Wayne, A couple of photo's of a British clinometer in my collection, I believe that this is the type used with howitzers 4.5 and larger. I am no expert so hopefully some of the forums 'gunners' will have opinions.

 

good luck

 

khaki

 

1205172027.jpg

1205172030.jpg

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wmfinch

Hello Khaki,

 

thank you so much for the info and pictures....very much appreciated!

 

V/R

 

Wayne

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wmfinch

Hello All,

 

Here's a supplementary question....does anyone know how the clinometer was attached to the gun and where please?

 

I have tried studying photographs of 4.5 inch Howitzers on the internet, but cannot  work it out.  I'm assuming the Clinometer was situated vary near to the No. 7 Gunsight, so the Gun Layer could use the instruments together.

 

More help will be greatly appreciated.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

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pebbles

I have not found  a suitable photo of a barrel but I suggest that on the barrel or breech block there will be a small area that is accurately machined flat and parallel to the centre axis of the barrel.  This will not be painted and on which the clinometer is placed to check elevation, Clinometer is removed before firing. On more recent guns I have seen this feature on the upper surface of the  breech block.

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squirrel

This is from the Landships site might be of help:

4.5 inch How.jpg

Edited by squirrel

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MikB

Most of the clinometer plane is visible on the right of the breech operating lever in the pic. It was T-shaped, presumably to allow measurement of (or, perhaps more likely, checking for the absence of) cant, as well as elevation.

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kildaremark

Hi Wayne

You will also need to get your hands on one of these - the gun layer badge which would have been on his right upper arm.

 

Mark

 

th.jpg

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wmfinch

Hello All,

 

Thank  you so much for the information....this is wonderful.  I assumed the Clinometer was permanently attached somewhere, but now I understand how it would be used.

 

This is a picture of no.199319 Bombardier Reginald Charles Evans M.M., my Grandfather.  Mark, thank you for the picture of the Gun Layers Badge..EXACTLY  like the one my Grandfather is wearing.

 

With very best wishes,

 

Wayne

 

image.jpg

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MikB
3 hours ago, wmfinch said:

Hello All,

 

Thank  you so much for the information....this is wonderful.  I assumed the Clinometer was permanently attached somewhere, but now I understand how it would be used.

 

Well, there is another sight clinometer attached to the dial sight carrier on the left of the gun. In the pic, you can see its dull brass adjusting knob at about 8 o'clock position from the whitish eyecup. Very generally and with exceptions, I think the sight clinometer might be used for direct fire, and the separate instrument for indirect - but if a proper artillerist should come along I might stand corrected.

 

Len Trawin's "Early British Quick Firing Artillery" contains excellent drawings of the 4.5, almost good enough to build a model from - with a very great deal of additional scaling work... :D 

Edited by MikB

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Grovetown
4 hours ago, wmfinch said:

This is a picture of no.199319 Bombardier Reginald Charles Evans M.M., my Grandfather.  Mark, thank you for the picture of the Gun Layers Badge..EXACTLY  like the one my Grandfather is wearing.

 

image.jpg

 

With the sign of the 55th Division worn above the layer's badge too.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

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wmfinch

Hello GT.....absolutely.  He was one of the other eleven decorated men who fought alongside Sgt Cyril E Gourley when he won the V.C. on 30th Nov 1917 (D/276 Battery, 55th West Lancashire Division).  The group of descendants of the men just celebrated Sgt Gourley's grave re-dedication and the 100th Anniversary up in West Kirby and Liverpool.  I say 'up' as my Grandfather and I both live(d) in Cheltenham.

 

But going back to the equipment, thank you MikB for pointing the other Clinometer out.  If only Firepower hadn't closed down.....I could study their 4.5" Howitzer at close quarters!  I'm kicking myself that I didn't take close up photographs when I visited a couple of years ago!  Anyone know about Firepower re-opening?  In the meantime it looks like I need to get hold of a copy of Len Trewin's book.  However, looking closely at the photograph that 'Squirrel' kindly sent, it certainly looks as though there is a flat machined section on top of the gun barrel almost underneath the armoured shield.  That must be for the 'portable' Clinometer.  The strong belief that there were 2 Clinometers is looking correct.

 

I hope my bank balance can stand up to purchasing two ha ha!!

 

With grateful thanks,

 

Wayne

 

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MikB
1 hour ago, wmfinch said:

...

However, looking closely at the photograph that 'Squirrel' kindly sent, it certainly looks as though there is a flat machined section on top of the gun barrel almost underneath the armoured shield.  That must be for the 'portable' Clinometer.  The strong belief that there were 2 Clinometers is looking correct.

 

Wayne

 

The perspective  on the photo can be a bit deceptive if you don't already know the layout - the flat's actually on the RH side of the breech. There's a very clear plan view drawing in Trawin's book, but I'd probably get copyright grief if I were to post a scan of it.

 

Your dial sight, if it includes the 'carrier', should also have a location for the sight clinometer - a squarish flat with a horizontal slot through the middle and 4 tapped holes.

 

This stuff is on pp.337 - 343 of Trawin's book.

Edited by MikB

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wmfinch

Ah thank you MikB.  Unfortunately, I only have the sight and not the carrier, so the book is now on my Xmas wish list.  

 

I really do appreciate the help given as I want to purchase the correct equipment as part of a family heirloom.

 

V/R

 

Wayne

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squirrel

From the same landships site might be a better view. 

FWIW the handbook for the  13 and 18 pdr list of stores carried on the carriage includes: Case MkIII field clinometer on shield, Case sight clinometer on shield, Clinometer sight in case on shield,Case spare sight clinometer ( one per battery), Clinometer sight (spare) in case on left tensile stay (one per battery), clinometer field MkIII (per section) in case on shield.

4.5 How 2.jpg

Edited by squirrel

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wmfinch

Hello Squirrel et All,

 

Once again, many thanks for your interest and help.

 

My Grandfather's Battery was made up of 18 pounders and 4.5" howitzers.  I suspect he was trained in both, but definitely on the howitzer.

 

From what I have learnt in this posting and looking at photos on the internet, there were different versions of the PORTABLE Clinometer..Mark 3, Mark 4, Mark 5 and Mark 6 (as seen in Khaki's photograph).

 

If you folks were in my shoes,  which one would you go for?  My Grandfather served from Jan 1917 to Nov 1919 and I'm trying to get an example of the type he would have used.

 

Who said this would be easy!!??

 

With regards to the fixed Sight Clinometer, I think I'll wait until my copy on 'English Quick Firing Artillery' turns up.  My wife kindly agreed to buy me one for Christmas.  It's on order but she wont let me have it until Christmas Day ha ha!!

 

V/R

 

Wayne

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