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Nick seal

Capbadge ID

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Nick seal

Hi 

I'm trying in vain to gain some traction in getting the wartime details of my great grandfather 

all we have is the rather poor photograph attached. 

I have been trying in vain to decipher the capbadge but just can't make it out. 

My original thoughts were 7th Bn West Yorkshire Regt ??

We have his DOB and place plus his family details, but no service record. 

Frank Chadwick 

DOB - 24/10/1886 Dewsbury Leeds 

Died - 1922 Leeds 

I have searched the medal card index and there are 26 Frank Chadwicks listed.

 

Any expert advice either on the capbadge, uniform or service would be outstanding. 

IMG_8288.JPG

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Nick seal

Further to this- regarding his uniform, I didn't think OR's would have worn a collar and tie? Or am I talking rubbish? 

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Willh1664
19 minutes ago, Nick seal said:

Further to this- regarding his uniform, I didn't think OR's would have worn a collar and tie? Or am I talking rubbish? 

 

Possibly injured and wearing hospital uniform? I believe these uniforms included ORs wearing shirts and ties with their tunics.

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HolymoleyRE

Starter for 10 off the Leeds Absent Voters list...Formerly #20776 KOSBs...which is the size and shape of the badge...on a Hospital Uniform, as above which crossed my mind, but on hat rather than glengarry????

 

https://www.leeds.gov.uk/leisure/libraries/absent-war-voters

 

#20776 Frank Chadwick A Coy, 2nd Btn has a three medical reports on FWR which run from April to June 1916...for Bronchial infections and then an inflammed stomach condition.

 

Andy

Screenshot_20180319-231027.jpg

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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Nick seal

When I looked at the cap badge, KOSB did spring to mind, along with 7th Bn West Yorks and KRRC. 

There was a frank Chadwick listed as KOSB on the medal card roll. 

My mother told me he died in 1922 after returning from the war after being badly gassed in the trenches aswell 

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Ron Clifton
11 hours ago, Willh1664 said:

 

Possibly injured and wearing hospital uniform? I believe these uniforms included ORs wearing shirts and ties with their tunics.

Hospital uniform tunics had conspicuous white lapels and were cut more like a civilian jacket. I don't think this is the case here.

 

Ron

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Pat Atkins

Perhaps a greatcoat of some sort (not sure whether hospital uniform included an overcoat, and if so, what configuration it would have had). Agree, the badge could be KOSB.

 

Cheers, Pat.

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Nick seal

Firstly - thankyou for your replies 

To take this forward myself now, how would I cross reference frank Chadwicks personal details (place and DOB etc...) against any army service records? He's a complete unknown 

At thr moment, just to actually solve the puzzle of the photo would be a major leap forward! 

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Willh1664
Just now, Nick seal said:

Firstly - thankyou for your replies 

To take this forward myself now, how would I cross reference frank Chadwicks personal details (place and DOB etc...) against any army service records? He's a complete unknown 

At thr moment, just to actually solve the puzzle of the photo would be a major leap forward! 

 

Odds are that his service record was destroyed, a quick search on Ancestry will help confirm just by using his name, DOB place of birth and filling some gaps so using different regiment names. Could also search through the Silver badge lists and see if any match up? I also think that Find my past has hospital records from France, in what depth they go i have no idea.  

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GWF1967
3 hours ago, Pat Atkins said:

Perhaps a greatcoat of some sort (not sure whether hospital uniform included an overcoat, and if so, what configuration it would have had). Agree, the badge could be KOSB.

 

Cheers, Pat.

I'm with Pat - I think it's a shirt and tie with an overcoat hiding the hospital blue jacket.( overcoats were worn by recuperating soldiers in cold weather; an armband was worn over the greatcoat sleeve to identify them as recovering wounded)

Edited by GWF1967

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Nick seal

Thanks for the responses so far... really interesting ref the hospital uniform and the greatcoat 

I've submitted a request to the 14/18 page 

 

Having searched the mil service records on ancestry I can find absolutely nothing further. 

The more I look at the capbadge the more I'm leaning towards the KOSB??

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FROGSMILE
3 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

I'm with Pat - I think it's a shirt and tie with an overcoat hiding the hospital blue jacket.( overcoats were worn by recuperating soldiers in cold weather; an armband was worn over the greatcoat sleeve to identify them as recovering wounded)

 

I concur entirely with Pat and GWF1967.  Standard SD caps were issued to wounded men (who had been perhaps evacuated in steel helmets) from hospital stores. Scots hats seem not to have been provided, at least South of the border.  Ergo men of Scottish regiments wore their cap badge on the head dress provided to them.  There are many photos showing this.  Overcoats were worn over hospital blue in Winter months as described.

The cap badge is more problematic as its size is extremely large even for a Scots bonnet and the proportions of the crown at top all wrong. It might perhaps be some kind of celebratory badge as sometimes seen on Empire day or when raising funds for a particular cause.

Edited by FROGSMILE

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Nick seal

All - thanks for the guidance and invaluable advice, I feel like I have moved forward somewhat on this journey. 

 

Does anyone have a more educated guess than myself as to the capbadge and unit? 

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HolymoleyRE

Nick, 

Do you know any of his abodes pre and post war....feel free to share them and any other family detail.

 

The link to the Leeds AVL says it can provide details of the address direct from them, sadly not on line...So that may count in or out the man I listed.

 

A previous post mentions SWBs there a couple, both DLI men with ages (one was born in 1893).

 

Obtaining the death cert will give cause of death and maybe another clue?

 

33 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The cap badge is more problematic as its size is extremely large even for a Scots bonnet

 

Inclined to agree, but having looked at a few other images a slightly oblique on the image can distort height and width..and male the crown taller.  But still only an uneducated guess....the more I look...the more I can see a cross.. 🤔

 

Andy

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FROGSMILE

I did consider light distortion and optical illusion, but even with that caveat in mind I don’t feel it’s a standard Army issue badge.

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Nick seal

Really interesting and tvm 

I was convinced I could see a cross and some sort of wreath hence 7th Bn West YORKS or KRRC 

My sister has done most of the digging for the whole family but has come up short on military service and records 

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Nick seal

Bit of info update 

on the 1911 census frank greenwood Chadwick was listed as living at :

7 cross chancellor st 

woodhouse 

leeds 

 

Edited by Nick seal

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Nick seal

I can find only one frank Chadwick listed on the AVL as kindly suggested above, however when I've tried to cross ref those details against the medal card index and the service records I've drawn an absolute blank 

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HolymoleyRE

The Medal Card exists, but no service records that I can see.

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Nick seal

So I've had another look and found the following information 

20776 - Pte frank Chadwick KOSB 

Who then tx to the KOYLI with the Regt no 38501 

this then ties in with the AVL for Leeds 

The rather large looking capbadge could quite well be KOSB 

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Nick seal

 

23 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Starter for 10 off the Leeds Absent Voters list...Formerly #20776 KOSBs...which is the size and shape of the badge...on a Hospital Uniform, as above which crossed my mind, but on hat rather than glengarry????

 

https://www.leeds.gov.uk/leisure/libraries/absent-war-voters

 

#20776 Frank Chadwick A Coy, 2nd Btn has a three medical reports on FWR which run from April to June 1916...for Bronchial infections and then an inflammed stomach condition.

 

Andy

Screenshot_20180319-231027.jpg

HolymoleyRE - please forgive my ignorance but how/ where would I find the medical reports for 20776 Pte Chadwick KOSB? 

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HolymoleyRE

They are on Find My Past under the the KOSB Number and F Chadwick

 

The are also on Forces War Records.

 

Andy

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Stebie9173

Addresses referenced as between 787 and 793 LN (i.e. Leeds North) on the Leeds Absent Voters refer to addresses on "CROSS CHANCELLOR ST 787/793"

 

See this PDF (direct link):

 

https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/Leeds North Division.pdf

 

 

Steve.

Edited by Stebie9173

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HolymoleyRE
2 hours ago, Nick seal said:

cross chancellor st 

 

23 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said:

CROSS CHANCELLOR ST 787/793"

Nice one Steve, So is that a match for AVL Frank Chadwick 789 LN and Frank Chadwick on the 1911 Census?

 

Andy

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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HolymoleyRE

Frank

Surname: Chadwick

Age: 30

Index Number of Admission: 11278

Rank: Private

Service Number: 20776

Months With Field Force: 4 months

Ailment: Inflamed stomach slight

Date of Admission for Original Ailment: 29/05/1916

Date Transferred to Other Hospitals: 19/06/1916

Number of Days Under Treatment: 22

Number/Designation of Ward: M

Notes written in the Observations Column:From No. 10 Ambulance Train. To No.6 C. D.

Religion: Church of England

Regiment: King's Own Scottish Borderers

Battalion: 2nd Battalion

Other unit info: A Company....

 

Note the age...aged 30 YoB 1886.....!

 

A match I think?

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